A Big Thank You

Gladio · Jun 1, 2015

Best of luck to our allies Balder

North East Somerset · Jun 1, 2015

Furthermore, regarding Provision 3 of the Personal Powers and Responsibilities of the Monarch, ie.

3)It shall be lawful for the Monarch of Balder to make Royal Decrees for the peace, order, and good government of Balder in relation to all matters. These decrees shall have the force of law unless an objection to said decree is raised by any Riksdag member at any time in which case the Riksdag may vote to allow the decree to become law otherwise the decree shall be overruled.

This specific power was granted by a Citizens vote in December 2013, and the following voted Aye;

Zander Cerebella
Libertarian Republics
Stersteraved
Zeorus
Hileville
Fools
Mcmasterdonia
Charles Cerebella

I abstained. No one voted against it.

What I've "historically opposed," not just here but everywhere, is authoritarian models of Feeder and Sinker governance. My opposition to the government of Balder began with Rach's moves toward authoritarianism and have continued along that line since then.

Again, this is all revisionism from you Cormac. You weren't opposed, you were one of the primary proponents of the Reforms I am now supporting the implementation of.

When 346, the Speaker, put forwards the proposal "Making Rach a true Queen by Ending Monarch Elections" - this was your response:

Cormac:
I actually think this would make quite a bit of sense for Balder and would strengthen both the region's security and its political health.

The fact of the matter is that while democracy is nice and it's something we should all to some degree aspire to, we need to be mindful of game mechanics. We are sometimes too quick to impose real life ideology upon a game that isn't necessarily well suited to it under all circumstances. In an ideal world, maybe, all regions would be great beacons of democracy -- though I also believe that variety makes the game more interesting. But in the real world, the simple truth is the more often the Delegacy changes hands the greater the risk of a coup d'etat. All it takes is one election when the region is at an inactive point, when there aren't obvious good and active candidates for the Delegacy, when any activity at all looks like a qualifier, and before you know it Balder has its very own version of The Dourian Embassy sitting in its Delegacy waiting for his moment.

Democracy is a positive. So is stability. We can have both, and this proposal would allow both -- democracy in the legislature, stability in the Delegacy. There are ways to have democracy while being mindful of the realities of game mechanics and the risks of Delegacy turnover, and this is one of those ways. I would encourage serious consideration here and not a kneejerk reaction because this isn't done in other Feeders and Sinkers. Maybe it isn't, but maybe it should be, and Balder has always been willing to think outside the box and take a different direction when it believes that direction is beneficial. That's one reason Balder is one of the most stable and active GCRs. So I hope that an independent, critical thinking approach will be taken to this proposal as has been the case with other matters.

and

I trust you see what I did there. I could have written that exact same paragraph about Osiris right before the December 2012 coup d'etat. You have a stable Delegacy until you don't.

For Osiris, our "until you don't" moment began when a strong, charismatic Delegate who largely united the region, not unlike Rach in some respects and completely different in others, stepped down. Although things continued to look rosy for a while under Mad Jack, as soon as Earth stepped down that was when the factions in Osiris started battling for control. The battle was slow and quiet at first, happening in IRC queries, private channels, and forum PMs. It escalated in December 2012 with the 48 hour coup. It led to Mad Jack's resignation from office, and the rise of his untested Kai Repat, The Dourian Embassy, to the Delegacy. I'm pretty sure you know the rest.

If you think you don't have factions here, you're wrong. It's a GCR. You have them. If you think what's happened in Osiris can't happen here, I hope you're right -- but most Osirans thought that too.

I don't believe a Sinker needs turnover in its Delegacy every 3-6 months to have a vibrant political and cultural atmosphere. User-created regions don't change their Founders every 3-6 months and they seem to get along fine. Instead of insisting that Balder must be exactly as most other GCRs and risking that it will end up in the same state Osiris has been in, we could be talking about ways to make this proposal work and still have a vibrant political and cultural atmosphere. I haven't been active enough here to say that Balder should do that, but after my experience in Osiris I would urge you to strongly consider alternatives to the cookie cutter democracy that helped plunge my home region into chaos and make it the punchline to every joke in NationStates. I may not have been that active here but I don't want to see what's happened to Osiris happen to Balder.

So you're posing yourself as a fighter against Rach's proposals alongside Cere now, but the reality is that you were the key supporter of the reforms you are now fighting against.

I'm the one making the arguments you made back then, now. Not as eloquently albeit, and I never expect to be able to match you for eloquence in my arguments.

Were you wrong back then? Was it another mistake?

Please, feel free to clarify before making ridiculous revisionist statements where you are some sort of historic Revolutionary figure against Rach.

Read what you said. Then tell me about how you opposed Rach again.

Cere, now Cere has been completely consistent all along, and his opinions back then were Caution with regards to increased Monarchy powers. I have the utmost respect for his position, and he is quite right to state that not all the Monarchist themed changes in Balder were done under his watch - a lot of the later changes were not done by him, although as he says, he did approve most of them.

But you.... you're really pushing the boundaries of history here Cormac.

Cormac · Jun 1, 2015

Rach:
So we can conclude that Cormac still does not understand the concepts of authoritarianism and that he opposes the Balder government. Even if out of his own misconceptions/misunderstandings or perhaps simply the old adage that if you try hard enough and squint, any person can find evidence suiting their own pre-made conclusions. Which is why we still have debates on issues in which the evidence overwhelmingly points to one direction.

It's amusing to me that we don't find others reaching this conclusion. I'm sure insulting citizens of The North Pacific for disagreeing with you will be a stellar way to persuade other citizens here that you mean well and keep that treaty on the books though.

Rach:
I'm pretty sure you have flip flopped on this issue a few times. If I recall correctly you were a member of the NPO and also had supported a more authoritarian government in Osiris. This of course did not occur due to popular support for a more democratic one particularly from the more recent (recent at the time) people changing support from the KRO to the OFO. Unfortunately, you appear to be supporting a more authoritarian and less democratic model in Balder today although of course we are dealing with degrees of democracy.

When I briefly joined the NPO, it was pursuing democratization via a new legislative chamber comprised of elected Tribunes. I left the NPO when it became clear that its moves toward greater democracy and its supposed newfound respect for the sovereignty of other regions were fraudulent smoke and mirrors.

Regarding Osiris, citations, please. Given that I'm the one who created the governmental structure of the Osiris Fraternal Order, the burden of proof that I preferred authoritarianism contrary to the government I created would be on you.

Rach:
Furthermore, it's been painstakingly obvious in Balder that we have striven towards compromise and always had a strategy of allowing the people to do what they wish.

I remember how compromising you were when I objected to your last royal decree in the Riksdag. You suspended the Riksdag. Perhaps that's why no one objected this time.

North East Somerset:
<snip>

NES, that proposal was being made through legal democratic processes, which is to say, through the Riksdag. That proposal and what is occurring here are completely different. That proposal was rejected, so now she is pursuing it through authoritarian means, and that is what I oppose. I opposed it before as well, when she attempted to alter the Statsminister position by royal decree and I objected to that royal decree in the Riksdag, prompting her not to argue her case before the Riksdag but rather to suspend the Riksdag altogether.

Gradea · Jun 1, 2015

Who needs Racelism and Communism when you can have Gradeaism?

Rach · Jun 1, 2015

Gradea:
Who needs Racelism and Communism when you can have Gradeaism?

Um, I think you forgot 25% of my name (the H) unless you are trying to make it sound like racism...

Cormac:
It's amusing to me that we don't find others reaching this conclusion. I'm sure insulting citizens of The North Pacific for disagreeing with you will be a stellar way to persuade other citizens here that you mean well and keep that treaty on the books though.

Strangely, you're the only person I've seen not reach this conclusion. That combined with the sheer volume of times you have gotten things incorrect as well as combined with your emotionally based language regarding this leads me to believe that you might simply have a pre-planned agenda. I would encourage you to look at the facts rather than try to squeeze them into some bizarre shape.

Cormac:
When I briefly joined the NPO, it was pursuing democratization via a new legislative chamber comprised of elected Tribunes. I left the NPO when it became clear that its moves toward greater democracy and its supposed newfound respect for the sovereignty of other regions were fraudulent smoke and mirrors.

It's perfectly alright to experiment with different phases and things. If I bitterly left Balder and Osiris however, I would not be claiming I was there to briefly turn the regions into Romanesque or Chinese type regions. I'm not entirely sure if one could believe to achieve such aims in the NPO. You weren't exactly new to NS.

Cormac:
Regarding Osiris, citations, please. Given that I'm the one who created the governmental structure of the Osiris Fraternal Order, the burden of proof that I preferred authoritarianism contrary to the government I created would be on you.

Unfortunately I do not keep logs of people, however as has been the case throughout this argument I have stated the truth and facts. It would pain me deeply to be incorrect. I do understand that the burden of proof is on me to prove this, unfortunately I cannot prove this without some digging. While I understand that my honour is not enough, I will retract this argument until it can be proven otherwise.

Cormac:
I remember how compromising you were when I objected to your last royal decree in the Riksdag.

While I do respect and listen to all opinions, I believe you were one of if not the only person to oppose it. The simple fact of the matter is that I am a servant of Balder and I sat with the majority on that issue. Furthermore, I don't believe you offered a compromise at the time. Finally, there was a lot of anger towards you at the time and the feeling that I had focused my attention on the wrong body as well as person.

Cormac:
You suspended the Riksdag. Perhaps that's why no one objected this time.

There is something in economics called the "false-cause fallacy" as well as another well known problem solving technique called "lex parsimoniae" or Occam's Razor. The false-cause fallacy is well known, it is when one conflates two events with each other even though they don't necessarily are related. It is simply a fluke. For example, if I slept better in the Winter due to the colder temperatures but this was instead attributed to lower consumption of gasoline in the winter. While they might both occur in the winter, it doesn't make sense that lower gas prices would affect my sleeping especially if I don't drive.

This ties into Occam's Razor or rather that the simplest solution tends to be the true one as it stands upon the least amount of assumptions. I will note here that many of the assumptions you have made have been completely disproven and dismantled. Thus, rather than being a conspiracy of authoritarianism it is simply an attempt at positive reform. The latter makes much more sense and relies on less assumptions. Yet the first relies on far more assumptions, many of which have been completely disproven. This is similar to many conspiracy theories such as that the Space Landing was a hoax.

Cormac:
NES, that proposal was being made through legal democratic processes, which is to say, through the Riksdag.

Once again, your language betrays a lack of factual arguments via loaded statements that seem to suggest certain assumptions are true. This in fact is incorrect. Deconstructing this statement, there is one key assumption that we are to assume is the truth. By saying that "that" proposal was being made through legal democratic processes, you infer strongly that this one is not. Already, this assumption has been deconstructed and proven to be incorrect earlier. So I am not sure if you are simply looking to sneak a fast one past people or are trying to simply use inflammatory language to try to influence people.

There was an interesting argument by Sam Harris that this reminds me of. Whether or not you agree or disagree with his ideas or whether you even know who he is is inconsequential. But the argument states that if you call someone a racist for example, you've already won a large portion of the crowd to your side since they are swayed by the emotional appeal of that label whether or not it is true. This would appear to be what you are doing here, by using factually incorrect arguments but still labelling us and people you are trying to set up a dichotomy that simply does not exist.

A Big Thank You

Gladio

TNPer

North East Somerset

TNPer

Cormac

TNPer

Gradea

TNPer

Rach

TNPer