[Lazarus] Severance of Diplomatic Relations

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It has come to our attention that the world at large, and particularly our enemies and the enemies of our allies who are one and the same, may be unclear in regard to the political orientation and military alignment of Osiris. We want to clarify this in unambiguous terms. The Osiris Fraternal Order is, and has been since its inception, imperialist in political orientation and raider in military alignment. Each Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order has enthusiastically advanced this imperialist orientation, and several have also had extensive military careers as raiders. On the current Hedjet, or Cabinet, are several imperialists and raiders, and the Deshret, our legislature, is comprised of many imperialists and raiders while welcoming those of other backgrounds who can accept the political orientation and military alignment our region has chosen.

This is not a mistake or an accident. Indeed, we have quite intentionally chosen to adopt an imperialist political orientation and raider military alignment. It was imperialists and raiders who stood the most strongly behind Osiris last December, when we threw off the chains of oppression imposed upon Osiris by the pseudo-defenders and opportunists who comprise the organization known as Empire. More importantly, the Osiris Fraternal Order has decided that Osiris will never again be the fragile, timid region it was during the days of the Kemetic Republic. We will project our power on the world stage, we will take any military action that is in our region's interests, we will defend and advance our region's interests wherever and whenever we deem fit. We will offer no apology and we will not equivocate. We will not back down under pressure from the faux morality of defender ideologues, who will never be satisfied by anything less than complete conformity to their views and subjugation of regional sovereignty to super-regional organizations led by an elitist oligarchy.

Regrettably, the People's Republic of Lazarus has taken a position of rabid anti-imperialism. Government officials within Lazarus have stated that it is in the PRL's interests to extend friendship to Osiris, and yet the path to friendship with Balder remains closed. Indeed, some high profile Lazarenes and the PRL overall have not ruled out the use of direct force against imperialist regions, including Balder, and have pledged to fight a propaganda war against our allies in Balder, The Land of Kings and Emperors, The New Inquisition, Albion, and presumably other friends and allies of the Osiris Fraternal Order that defenders have correctly or incorrectly identified as comprising the imperialist sphere of influence. This commitment to hostility against our closest allies, particularly our twin sister Sinker, is simply intolerable.

While we remain distinct from our allies with a unique political and social culture as well as external interests specific to our region, the Osiris Fraternal Order states unequivocally that we will not tolerate this stance of open hostility toward our allies and pretend that the aggressor is a friend to Osiris. Any attack upon our allies, whether through the use of misinformation or through actual force, is an attack upon the Osiris Fraternal Order. We cannot, nor will we, tolerate such attacks.

Indeed, we cannot support nor lend credibility to a regime which finds it in its interests to engage in open hostility with most, if not eventually all of our allies. We will meet all acts of hostility against our allies in equal measure and in collaboration with allied regions, up to and including the use of military force. Given the hostile stance of the PRL toward our allies and given that the PRL will not rule out the use of direct force against even a fellow Sinker, as we did in ratifying a non-aggression pact with The Rejected Realms, we cannot move forward with relations with the PRL while maintaining full knowledge that we may be compelled due to the PRL's refusal to respect the sovereignty of other regions to defend our allies against PRL aggression.

Effective immediately, the Osiris Fraternal Order severs all relations with the People's Republic of Lazarus. We will maintain no ties to a regime that threatens our allies or our own principles. Moreover, we offer this warning to any region considering a position of open hostility toward or outright attack upon our twin sister, Balder, or any of our allies: If you believe we, who drove Empire from Osiris when others were too timid, are the weak link in the bond of friendship that unites imperialist and raider regions, you are very wrong. We seek peace and cooperation with regions that will respect our sovereignty and the sovereignty of our allies, but if a fight is brought to us, a fight it will be, and the Osiris Fraternal Order has never and will never back down and betray our principles or our allies in the face of adversity.

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Cormac:

The Osiris Fraternal Order is, and has been since its inception, imperialist in political orientation

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When did we start lying in official dispatches?

Nierr:

Cormac:

The Osiris Fraternal Order is, and has been since its inception, imperialist in political orientation

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When did we start lying in official dispatches?

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Since the inception of the OFO? I don't think he is lying.

He is.

The OFO was never founded to be imperialist.

Good statement.

Wasn't the Empire accused of being Imperialist or something? Or maybe I'm just getting my chronology off.

Nierr:

He is.

The OFO was never founded to be imperialist.

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To expand upon this, in none of the official announcements post coup, in none of the interviews Venico did, in none of the statements released by the 3 leaders of the OFO, Cormac, Venico and Koth, was the word 'imperialist' used as anything other than a way to tarnish Empire (who were accused of being imperialist in scope).

Venico added the Imperialist tag to Osiris during his Delegacy, perhaps even before the Osiris Fraternal Order was officially established.

I have no intention of arguing this point, however, as it is tangential to our statement. As a co-founder of the Osiris Fraternal Order, I do believe I have a slightly better idea of the intent behind it.

Can confirm that it was always the intention for the OFO to be raider/imperialist aligned.

The former, yes, was very obvious from the beginning.

The latter was not, and none of your statements at the time suggested that.

Once again, this is completely tangential to our statement. Regardless of when we became imperialist -- though it has in fact been since the very beginning -- we are imperialist now, so are most of our allies, and the PRL is on an anti-imperialist crusade.

I welcome this statement, but to nit-pick, imperialism of OFO was not obvious. The Osiris Fraternal Order was perceived by many as being LESS imperialist than the Empire.

I welcomed the establishment of the OFO, I think it has done great things for Osiris, and I think it can continue to do great things under an imperialist/raider alignment.

I do think it's odd to knock anti-imperialist sentiment when anti-imperialist senitment is part of what gave OFO such terrific support in its early days. People took your side even against Todd McCloud, of all people.

I respect the choice Osiris has made, however, and trust the authorities of OFO to take whatever such decisions are necessary to ensure a strong and prosperous Osiris in the future.

This is my personal opinion as an ex-citizen and I don't think I can be taken as representing any segment here.

For example, if I am against imperialism in TNP, or in TEP, it's because of my personal perception of what is right for those communities. The overthrow of KRO by the OFO is what seemed to be right for Osiris. Whether it was imperialist or not didn't really matter at the time. What mattered is it was very different to the Empire.

Does imperialism mean being like the Empire or being like the OFO?

How different it is now, I cannot accurately know. What made the KRO distasteful was the lies and misdirection. If you can continue to avoid being dishonest to yourselves then you are doing really well. I wish you all the best.

As you may have noticed, I'm not an expert in this game, so if anything I've said is particularly offensive, pm me.

I don't have any stake in this, I don't wish to see a more liberal or democratic Osiris, I don't want the Sekhmet to raid less or choose its targets any differently than it does. I just wanted to express myself on what I find a complex and difficult issue.

I think there's a misunderstanding here in regard to imperialism.

When referring to imperialism, we are referring to the political orientation long held by regions such as Balder, The Land of Kings and Emperors, The New Inquisition, Albion, etc. We are referring essentially to a political orientation in which projection of our power -- soft and hard power, not exclusively military -- as well as pursuit of our own regional interests are paramount, above the ideological or moral considerations that direct the policy of defender and to a lesser extent raider regions. In this sense, imperialism is a form of independence which focuses more than traditional independence on the projection of power on the world stage as a means of pursuing regional interests.

The kind of imperialism espoused by Empire -- which I would not even call imperialism, in the sense the word is used in NationStates -- in which the interests of sovereign regions are subverted for the interests and benefit of opportunistic individuals, still has no place in Osiris and we condemn that kind of behavior. Individuals should not seek to manipulate, undermine, and subvert their regional communities for their own gain, playing other members of their communities against each other like pieces on a chess board for their own benefit or at times merely for their own amusement or the pursuit of petty vendettas. That was the behavior practiced by Empire in Osiris, and that is quite different from the very straightforward way that imperialists behave within their own regions as well as the way imperialist regions interact with other regions.

It's also important to note that Empire does not have any ties to the regions that describe themselves as imperialist, and indeed it is my understanding that members of Empire are unwelcome in most imperialist regions. The group that comprises Empire is a group of pseudo-defenders with former ties to the Alliance Defense Network and the Red Liberty Alliance, in collaboration with other more straightforward opportunists such as New Kervoskia and Neenee who have always been a bit more upfront in their disregard for the sovereignty of Feeder and Sinker communities. To call Empire imperialist, in the way the term is commonly used in NatonStates, is simply inaccurate.

So, to clarify, when the Osiris Fraternal Order describes itself as imperialist we mean this in the way the term is commonly used in NationStates, referring to the political orientation that is espoused by other regions which also call themselves imperialist. We continue to oppose Empire, and the kind of behavior practiced by Empire, and both members of Empire and the kind of behavior in which they engage have no place and will find no place in the Osiris Fraternal Order.

I hope this has clarified our position, and thank you, Chasmanthe, for your thoughtful response which allowed us to delve more deeply into these issues and be more clear.

Osiris never spoke to Lazarus beforehand about its concerns, which contributed to the misunderstandings that are evident in this statement.

Lazarus regrets that this happened, but wishes Osiris well.

Lazarus never spoke to us about the six months of escalating anti-imperialist saber rattling against our allies and our own regional principles either, which contributed to the severance of relations between our regions.

Osiris also regrets that this had to happen, and wishes Lazarus well.

Personally I hope Lazarus gets wrecked

I second the above opinion of Durk.

I think it is time that Lazarus' side of the story, or at least our concerns about the veracity of Cormac's, be acknowledged.

Cormac:

Lazarus never spoke to us about the six months of escalating anti-imperialist saber rattling against our allies and our own regional principles either, which contributed to the severance of relations between our regions.

Osiris also regrets that this happened, and wishes Lazarus well.

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I cannot help but find this answer to be shallow and demonstrative of our objection to Osiris' style of diplomatic expression. If we did anything that bothered you, it is your responsibility to speak to us about it. You know this, and the fact that you're acting like you don't worries me.

Your counterstatement disregards the fact that the burden of expressing concern lies with the concerned, in a situation where the concerned previously expressed approval for an action by a government. By approving the Lazarene embassy six months ago, Osiris indicated that Lazarus was not doing anything that they would want to close relations over -- Lazarus' condemnation of imperialism was known and not in question at the time. You've known from the start that we don't like how imperialist regions have treated us, and that we've chosen to vocalize, even under threat of losing our livelihood, our fundamental and earnest disagreements with imperialism. So what changed?

This announcement suggests that there was an escalation of our opposition, but this is unsupported outside of the claims that you thought we "hadn't ruled out using military force" against Balder, notwithstanding that we never had that question posed to us. Our commitment to non-violence is as strong as it was at the time we created embassies with Osiris. We never ruled it out only in the most literal sense, indeed. Had we been asked "would you use military force against a game-created region?" we'd have ruled it out instantaneously. We were never granted the courtesy of clarifying your worries. You, as a diplomat from Osiris, should've spoken to us if you were concerned, and we would've cleared up the matter fairly quickly. But you avoided that.

I also want to note that we have been dismayed by your unwillingness to clarify what made you believe that we were escalating and that Lazarus had considered acting aggressively towards Balder, or had not "ruled it out", and by your refusal to speak with us at all about your decision to slam the door on relations.

We were and always will be committed to peace throughout the game-created regions, even those we have disagreements with. We are very honest (perhaps controversially so) about our friendships and our enemies, and we are consistent in our refusal to be destructively aggressive regardless of our stance on regions. In an example that I am now slapping myself over, just a little bit, you yourself at one point claimed that the entire interregional community should pressure Lazarus into changing its style of governance, called for the world's regions to disown us, and egged on what could've easily been a leap towards a war against Lazarus. Imagine if we had done that to Osiris! We'd have seen a declaration of war, and that's assuming Osiris even would've thought it needed to be penned as a formality! But when you were saber rattling back in February, we spoke with Lord Ravenclaw, Osiris' delegate, who assured that your actions weren't a reflection of Osiris' policies or views, and that Osiris wouldn't condone such a thing. This was an act of respect and communication that now seems absent in Osiris, and it was something that we really appreciated back in Lazarus. We put the power of respectful diplomatic communication to use, even in a situation of conflict, and thus upheld our commitment to non-violence.

What that intention of ours has been countered with is why we're really bothered about the way this statement treats us now, Cormac. We were willing to put in the work to foster a cordial relationship with Osiris -- hoping to put away military alignments in favor of valuing the similarities inherent to all game-created regions -- and in this instance, here today, the carpet was pulled right from under our feet. The statement in the OP ended our relationship ended bitterly through means that, ironically, would demonstrate the sort of diplomatic shoulder-turning that we sought to break through, had it been honest. I say "had it been honest" because this, as evidenced, does not fit the description of a mis-communication. It is a disingenuous and undeserved attack on our community. We know it to be so. If it were not an attack, there would not be a missing link in your motive to close the embassy (i.e. you could have relations before, despite the policy existing, but not now), there would have been efforts on your part to exercise diplomacy and solve the concerns, and your worries would have a visible basis.

To me, your intent avoidance of communicating with us in a way that would be characteristic of a desire to achieve diplomatic progress, shows that this whole thing is, given the above, another manufactured issue intended to harm Lazarus' community and image. Filling a communiqué to the brim with misinformation and indignation, hoping to make a spectacle of Lazarus' community and to rattle your sabers, is a tactic that is both transparent and cliché. I truly hope that no one will make their judgements on what really happened here based on that alone.

That is all I have to say, unless you'd care to challenge the honesty of my objection to the integrity of your statement. I hope that the community of The North Pacific can see that Lazarus had no plans to act aggressively against Balder, that we have not departed from our belief in non-violence, and that everything here isn't exactly as it's being portrayed by Cormac's message. My account and opinions are certainly subject to the bias inherent in being in the community that is now the subject of these allegations, but before drawing judgement of Lazarus or Osiris, I implore readers who aren't JAL to research beyond this statement and garner the facts personally, through first-hand observation. I thoroughly disagree with Cormac's account and have done my best to give my side of the story here: I don't believe that Cormac is completely wrong or right, nor do I think I am, but I do believe that Lazarus has been treated unfairly here, and that you too will find that if you personally look into the events.

Thank you for hearing me out. I really appreciate your time.

~ Carta

Milograd has essentially summed up the collective thoughts of most Lazarenes in his post. Lazarus was never consulted about the concerns of Osiris, as should be a matter of diplomatic course. Instead, we were suddenly confronted with, as Milograd said, a communiqué filled to the brim with misinformation and indignation. Most members of Lazarus actually sought to strengthen our ties with Osiris as a sister sinker, but obviously this cannot be realized anymore.

Cormac:

To call Empire imperialist, in the way the term is commonly used in NatonStates, is simply inaccurate.

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So what's changed between now and December last year, when you were calling Empire Imperialist?

The date.

Very Interesting.

I assumed Osiris was imperialistic when the OFO came to power but sought to eliminate the canker sores that come with the Empire. It would seem that the the truth of the present situation between Lazarus and Osiris lies somewhere between the comments made by Cormac and Milograd.

Both cannot be true at the same time, and given the history of both, it's likely that each statement is laced with truth and hyperbole. I suppose the question for Cormac and the rest of Osiris is this - if Lazarus has now expressly stated they have no interest in attacking one of your allies, do you believe them and if you do believe them does it make the original intent of this thread moot? If you don't believe them, is this statement the beginning of escalations between Lazarus and Osiris?

Milograd and Funkadelia, I have no more intention of engaging in further diplomatic tit-for-tat with you here in our embassy with The North Pacific than I did in Gameplay.

Nierr, I have no intention of further engaging with you at all. Let's recap your recent history with the Osiris Fraternal Order:

1. You are the former Vizier of the Osiris Fraternal Order, recalled for threatening the Government of Osiris in much the same way that Empire had threatened previous governments.

2. You then refused to drop your WA status on your relatively high influence nation, further tarted, and forced the Pharaoh to eject and ban your nation, then ceased to participate in the region when it was made clear that kind of behavior would no longer be tolerated in Osiris.

3. You logged in recently to edit some posts in an RP you created in a petty attempt to make sure it could not be used.

4. You have recently accused me in Lazarus of selling out Osiris to imperialists and have expressed that you hope one day Osiris is free of me "and career imps like Cassius" Cerebella.

5. As a result of all this flagrantly aggressive behavior toward the Osiris Fraternal Order and the threat you have demonstrated to the security of our forum in your willingness to essentially delete posts that served the community, you are no longer even welcome in Osiris.

In fact, invoking the precedent established previously by request of Pharaoh Lyanna Stark and by order of then TNP Minister of Foreign Affairs Tim, I request on behalf of the Osiris Fraternal Order that Nierr be prohibited from posting in our embassy in The North Pacific.

I make no such request in regard to Milograd and Funkadelia, but I would ask them not to post here on behalf of the People's Republic of Lazarus, as the Osiris Fraternal Order and the People's Republic of Lazarus have no existing diplomatic relations and this embassy is for communication with The North Pacific, not the PRL. Lazarus has its own embassy with The North Pacific.

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Now to address reasonable citizens of The North Pacific who are posting in our embassy in good faith:

punk d:

I suppose the question for Cormac and the rest of Osiris is this - if Lazarus has now expressly stated they have no interest in attacking one of your allies, do you believe them and if you do believe them does it make the original intent of this thread moot? If you don't believe them, is this statement the beginning of escalations between Lazarus and Osiris?

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The statements made by Lazarene officials here contradict a comment previously made by Vice Chairman Funkadelia, while campaigning for the office of Chairman. When asked by a PRL citizen if, under his Chairmanship, the PRL would defend against imperialist raids or engage in overt hostility against imperialist regions -- and here the citizen posing the question listed Balder and The New Inquisition as specific examples -- this is how the Vice Chairman responded:

Of course, we would maintain our defense of regions that are besieged by the imperialists. Whether we are openly hostile or not depends on the circumstances. Obviously, my own vitriol when I speak of imperialism (including my article for The Rejected Times) is a vocal hostility towards imperialists, which I would also maintain. The Information district is a good mouthpiece for that, and I would ask that that district keep up articles of that sort.

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While it is certainly not clear from this comment that the Vice Chairman was advocating invasion of Balder, which is a claim we have not made, it is quite clear that he did not rule out the use of military force against Balder. Any reasonable interpretation of overt hostility above and beyond defending against their raids would include direct military action against them, and as the Vice Chairman clearly says, open hostility "depends on the circumstances." This comment by the Vice Chairman was not questioned or challenged by anyone in Lazarus, whether government official or ordinary citizen.

This assertion made by PRL officials that the PRL cannot engage in invasion of another region is not satisfying to anyone who has been paying attention. Indeed, the justification the PRL has repeatedly used for Feux's purge of imperialists from Lazarus itself, approved by the Emerald Council at the time, is that Feux was liberating Lazarus from the external influence and interference of so-called foreign imperialists. This so-called liberation also forms the basis for the PRL's hybrid socialist-defender ideology, which argues that Lazarus' true "natives" were liberated from imperialist oppression by the purge of imperialists from Lazarus.

There is no question in my mind that if the PRL wanted to take aggressive action against Balder, they would use this same "liberation" spin, particularly given that it is a common refrain from Lazarenes -- including Milograd, in response to controversy over a recent edition of The Rejected Times -- to portray Balder as a mere vacation spot or puppet of foreign imperialists. You see, to the extremists of the PRL, imperialists and raiders are never natives.

There is no question that the People's Republic of Lazarus is intensely hostile toward Balder, and no question that Vice Chairman Funkadelia did not rule out the use of force against Balder in recent comments specifically addressing hostility toward Balder. There is also no question, based on the PRL's history, that if it wants to commit questionable, aggressive actions, it will find a justification for doing so and call it "liberation."

In regard to whether this indicates an escalation between the Osiris Fraternal Order and the People's Republic of Lazarus, the Osiris Fraternal Order does not intend to escalate matters. We have severed relations and that is that. Our statement makes very clear, however, that attacks upon us or our allies will be met with a response proportionate to such attacks. If the People's Republic of Lazarus chooses to escalate hostility toward us and our allies, as they consistently have chosen to do throughout their history, the Osiris Fraternal Order will respond in kind.

Cormac:

In fact, invoking the precedent established previously by request of Pharaoh Lyanna Stark and by order of then TNP Minister of Foreign Affairs Tim, I request on behalf of the Osiris Fraternal Order that Nierr be prohibited from posting in our embassy in The North Pacific.

I make no such request in regard to Milograd and Funkadelia, but I would ask them not to post here on behalf of the People's Republic of Lazarus, as the Osiris Fraternal Order and the People's Republic of Lazarus have no existing diplomatic relations and this embassy is for communication with The North Pacific, not the PRL. Lazarus has its own embassy with The North Pacific.

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I am going to deny this request. The circumstances of the previous request were very different, and involved a member with a consistent pattern of harassing behaviour, in particular towards the then Pharaoh and ambassador from Osiris.

While the Government of The North Pacific does not consider any of the statements about the Osiris Fraternal Order's political orientation included in this dispatch to be inaccurate, private citizens are within their rights to express their disagreement. That is, provided of course that their posts do not devolve to harassment, flaming, or other such inappropriate behaviour, and I do not believe Nierr's posts are at that point.

Officials from Lazarus should use Lazarus' embassy if they want to provide "Lazarus' side of the story".

edit.

-Snip-

r3naissanc3r:

Officials from Lazarus should use Lazarus' embassy if they want to provide "Lazarus' side of the story".

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Oops, I only saw this just now. I am happy to abide, though I think I've said my peace anyway, unless Cormac wants to respark the argument.

I hope it's understood that anyone accused of things as heinous as what Cormac has accused us of deserves the right to directly respond to the allegations against their character, especially in this case. I would be disappointed if Cormac was using the embassy as a shield from accountability for his statements.

This thread has done a fine job at demonstrating that this is a heated dispute and that the argument has put you in a bit of a spot, and for this reason that I have to sincerely thank you for your patience, r3n. I truly appreciate it and the respectful consideration I've received from TNP.

Cheers.

~ Carta