Govindia

I think the McMasterdonia thread was the last straw for Govindia.

As Blue Wolf said, it's time to pull the plug.
 
The most recent post Govindia made was in response to my warning. It was not directed at McM, nor is it a reiteration of his previous inquiry. He is merely attempting to justify the prior post. That in itself shouldn't be cause for banning.

I know he has had lots of chances. But this is, after all, TNP. 100% warning comes with a job for us as moderators to help whoever it is to comply with acceptable standards. It should not be seen as an opportunity for the team to find fault at every turn. I appreciate Kiwi's efforts to explain things to Gov. That is what we are supposed to be about.

Now, what to do with this post directed toward me? Like I said before, I would normally take this to PM, so as not to hijack the thread. Any other thoughts or suggestions?
 
It really was directed at her. Very obviously so. Did you happen to read the post in question? Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious. Maybe it would be a good idea to link to questionable posts awaiting approval when we want to bring them up here for discussion?

I wouldn't ban him for that, but I agree with McMasterdonia that he will not change. He seems content to excuse his behavior, not to change it.
 
Great Bights Mum:
100% warning comes with a job for us as moderators to help whoever it is to comply with acceptable standards. It should not be seen as an opportunity for the team to find fault at every turn. I appreciate Kiwi's efforts to explain things to Gov. That is what we are supposed to be about.

Now, what to do with this post directed toward me? Like I said before, I would normally take this to PM, so as not to hijack the thread. Any other thoughts or suggestions?
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Kiwi isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last to talk to Govindia about his behaviour. If you are suggesting that somehow others in the admin team, possibly myself included, have not attempted to discuss Govindia's behaviour with him on one million occasions, that is wrong. Every attempt has been made to communicate his poor behaviour to him. It does not get through.

The point is when he is told to drop it - he should. He shouldn't have to clarify every post he makes, as that creates more arguments on to itself.

Anyway. This is falling on deaf ears. Do what you will with the thread, it's fallen in to a shambolic disgrace at this point already. I can't see how it could be made any worse. I will not be contributing to this matter further.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Anyway. This is falling on deaf ears. Do what you will with the thread, it's fallen in to a shambolic disgrace at this point already. I can't see how it could be made any worse. I will not be contributing to this matter further.
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I echo this. O will not be approving any posts of Gov's or speaking in regards to him any longer.
 
DD:
It really was directed at her. Very obviously so. Did you happen to read the post in question? Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious. Maybe it would be a good idea to link to questionable posts awaiting approval when we want to bring them up here for discussion?
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I don't have the ability to see mod preview posts outside of the Security Council forums. Somehow, when I became Vice-Delegate, that ability I had when I was a Justice didn't carry over.
 
Hileville:
mcmasterdonia:
Anyway. This is falling on deaf ears. Do what you will with the thread, it's fallen in to a shambolic disgrace at this point already. I can't see how it could be made any worse. I will not be contributing to this matter further.
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I echo this. O will not be approving any posts of Gov's or speaking in regards to him any longer.
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I echo Hileville and McMasterdonia on the matter. Govindia has long overstayed his welcome.
 
Democratic Donkeys:
Maybe it would be a good idea to link to questionable posts awaiting approval when we want to bring them up here for discussion?
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I think this is a great idea, seeing as quite a bit of us can't see some of his posts in the queue
 
I see no reason for a ban, since he is on mod approval. Any posts he makes that are not acceptable, simply do not get approved. After a while he may learn what gets through the modwall.

However, I think long term this will get to be tiresome for the mod team.

Ultimately, the enforcement of a permanent ban rests with the Root Administrator. therefore I would like to hear from Grosseschnauzer as to what action he thinks appropriate.
 
flemingovia:
I see no reason for a ban, since he is on mod approval. Any posts he makes that are not acceptable, simply do not get approved. After a while he may learn what gets through the modwall.

However, I think long term this will get to be tiresome for the mod team.

Ultimately, the enforcement of a permanent ban rests with the Root Administrator. therefore I would like to hear from Grosseschnauzer as to what action he thinks appropriate.
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In which case, his Questionable Posts shouldn't be approved and should be instead posted here for us to Review. Most Moderation needs to mean something. Although it will, as you said, get tiring for the Moderation Team eventually.

Govindia has been dodging a ban for years now. I don't like how he's basically getting treated with more leeway than other TNP members. We should be cautious to IP Ban, yes. Yet, we shouldn't basically give him special treatment to avoid banning him.

I too await input from the Schnauzer on the matter.
 
Tim:
flemingovia:
I see no reason for a ban, since he is on mod approval. Any posts he makes that are not acceptable, simply do not get approved. After a while he may learn what gets through the modwall.

However, I think long term this will get to be tiresome for the mod team.

Ultimately, the enforcement of a permanent ban rests with the Root Administrator. therefore I would like to hear from Grosseschnauzer as to what action he thinks appropriate.
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In which case, his Questionable Posts shouldn't be approved and should be instead posted here for us to Review. Most Moderation needs to mean something. Although it will, as you said, get tiring for the Moderation Team eventually.

Govindia has been dodging a ban for years now. I don't like how he's basically getting treated with more leeway than other TNP members. We should be cautious to IP Ban, yes. Yet, we shouldn't basically give him special treatment to avoid banning him.

I too await input from the Schnauzer on the matter.
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He really isn't being treated with abnormal leniency. We really don't ban long term members very often.

I'll take a close look at his unapproved posts in a bit.
 
Eluvatar:
He really isn't being treated with abnormal leniency. We really don't ban long term members very often.

I'll take a close look at his unapproved posts in a bit.
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Insane Power and Cathyy were banned from these forums long, long, long before the point we are currently at with Gov.
 
Yes, it is.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see the part where they were given 100% warning, then given mod preview, then had their PM rights taken away, then had an entire topic, spanning pages, based entirely on them and them alone, before they were, finally and mercifully, banned.

If those things didn't happen, you can't say their treatment before the banning was the same that we've given Gov. Don't get me wrong, I feel their bannings are completely just, but they weren't shown even half the leniency that Gov has been provided.
 
IP's final offense was grievous. Someone with 0% would have deserved a banning for it. Cath shared an IP address so she had to go too. Gov's stuff here isn't in the same league.
 
I'd agree that their actions related to this board were much worse than Gov's. Now are Gov's alleged harrassment actions worse than what Cathyy and IP did, I'd say so, but I do not believe he has committed those acts on these boards.

I have no desire to ban Govindia and TNP has a history of not doing that which I hope will continue. I think even if he's asking McM the same question over and over and over and over and over and over...is that really the final bannable offense? Again, I hope not.

In some of the 'offensive' posts I've read, they didn't seem that bad to me. People have made worse comments and not been banned or even warned. Just because Gov is annoying doesn't mean he should be banned. Yes, he has crossed the line and, in my opinion, he should be on 100% moderator preview for every post.

And I agree with Flem who said, if a mod approves a post that should preclude him from any type of warning for that post.

What may be a good alternative at this point is a note from the root admin detailing Gov's current actions and what's wrong with them. Then, a note about what steps will be taken if those actions continue. Perhaps a temporary ban of two weeks or a month. That gives Gov a clear notice before any banning takes place and what is and what's not acceptable. I think it should come from the root admin being undersigned by all admin and global moderators.

If Gov does not get that message, then he has left the admin/mod team with no other alternative.

EDIT: One last thing, I have a son who has autism which is a more sever form of Asperger's. Today, in church, he just screamed. Obviously, people on the autism spectrum have a difficulty communicating, but my response wasn't "well he has autism, let's just give him a pass" - we're trying to teach him appropriate behavior. I took him aside, told him to "use his words", and describe to me what the problem was. He has speech problems as well, but I wanted him to verbalize in a normal tone the issue and not just scream. I don't think this board should make excuses for Gov, but instead show him what is the proper way to behave. As I said, if he does not get the message no more that we can do. With my son, one day I won't be there to help (i'll be six feet under) and he'll need to figure out how to behave. If he can't there will be consequences. Should be no different than Gov. Apologies for the RL soapbox, but a disability is not a license to do whatever you want.
 
IS this going anywhere? We seem to be going off-topic and getting nowhere fast. In moderation, I think a speedy decision is preferable.

I would still like to hear Grosse's judgement on this.
 
I find it disheartening that this sort of lack of a response should be known as an expected behavior from our current Root Admin. I would hope he addresses the matter with haste.
 
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Besides this matter, there is still the thread where members of the regional community asked about expanding the size of the admin team? Where is his response to that?

I also have outstanding admin requests, that I believe are waiting for his final word on the matter. It's been a while.
 
It is now ten days since Grosse was asked for his input. It is reasonable now to suppose that he does not intend to comment. Since so much time has passed since the events being discussed, and no forum ban can be enforced without the root administrator's sanction, I suggest this matter is considered closed.
 
Couldn't we more sensibly request that the Root Admin account be transferred to another one of the Admins? Perhaps the one who does 85% of the Admin and Mod work on any given day?
 
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