Recall Tim

[Flemingovia]

<mcmasterdonia>: not even 100 posts today. Lets introduce a controversial bill!
<r3n>: or a recall
+++ ChanServ has given voice to Solm
<mcmasterdonia>: lol
<mcmasterdonia>: recall JamiePhone!
<r3n>: let's recall... [draws a lot]

Others talk; Flemingovia acts.

I propose to the RA the recall of Tim as Deputy Minister of Foreign affairs.

I note that constitutionally there do not have to be grounds for recall, so this is entirely legal.

Nothing much against Tim, but he was the last to post his oath. Once this is successful I will work my way backwards through the government, one by one.

 

[Tim]

[me]does not approve, due to no mention of his terrible history of abandonment and scandal.

 

[Ash]

Is this really going to a vote?

 

[Blue Wolf II]

Only if someone seconds it.

 

[Cormac]

Only if someone seconds it.

Needs more than this now. Either the Speaker can move it to vote (he probably won't) or it requires one-tenth of the RA to motion to vote.

 

[Flemingovia]

Only if someone seconds it.

Needs more than this now. Either the Speaker can move it to vote (he probably won't) or it requires one-tenth of the RA to motion to vote.

yeah. Our constitutional rights do not mean crap-shit nowadays, do they?

One man, one vote.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

Only if someone seconds it.

Needs more than this now. Either the Speaker can move it to vote (he probably won't) or it requires one-tenth of the RA to motion to vote.

 

[SillyString]

That's not an accurate representation of the process.

 

[King Durk the Awesome]

I second

 

[Ash]

Moved by Flem-God, seconded by Durk/JAL. All in favor?

**chorus of flying pigs unanimously say AYE**

 

[Crushing Our Enemies]

It is my impression that this proposal does not have enough support to justify scheduling a vote. It will not proceed to vote unless 1/10 of the membership of the RA moves that it be voted upon, per Section 1, Clause 4 of the RA Rules.

 

[Great Bights Mum]

Out of curiosity, how many is that?

@Ash

 

[Crushing Our Enemies]

6 at the moment.

 

[Flemingovia]

It might be worth going for it just to stick it to the man.

I am in favour of this going to vote

1/6

 

[Democratic Donkeys]

You have my axe, good sir. In "favour". 2/6

 

[Flemingovia]

Since JAL seconded the bill, I think we can count him as in favour too. I make that halfway there!

C'mon folks. It is worth it just to watch Ash explode in righteous indignation.

 

[King Durk the Awesome]

I am 3/6

 

[Tim]

You know what, I'll play along too.

Make that 4/6

 

[Cormac]

If I agree to change my nick to Negative Nancy for a week, can I subtract one of those so COE doesn't have to waste his time administering this ludicrous vote?

 

[punk d]

I move that this go to vote.

 

[Flemingovia]

Huzzah. Only one more needed.


People power for the win.

 

[Democratic Donkeys]

If I agree to change my nick to Negative Nancy for a week, can I subtract one of those so COE doesn't have to waste his time administering this ludicrous vote?

Can we get an agreement on this? That way when 7 people are in favor we get a silly recall AND Cormac is named Negative Nancy for a week. Pretty good deal imho.

 

[Ash]

Since JAL seconded the bill, I think we can count him as in favour too. I make that halfway there!

C'mon folks. It is worth it just to watch Ash explode in righteous indignation.

Well, if my avatar is any indication I could explode at any moment.

 

[Georgiana]

I move that this go to vote.

Second

 

[Great Bights Mum]

Ash = :boom

 

[Flemingovia]

Huzzah again. People power at its most potent.

Mr Speaker, do your duty!

 

[Iro]

I move this go to vote.

 

[Ash]

I find GBM's quote of flemingovia apropos: "Lest this is lost amid the asshattery..."

 

[Crushing Our Enemies]

The motion made by 1/10 of the Regional Assembly is recognized, and a vote has been opened.

 

[Romanoffia]

I've been waiting to make this comment...

Isn't recalling a deputy minister kind of pointless since, given the ability of ministers to govern and appoint their ministry, a minister can simply fire a deputy minister?

Just sayin'.

 

[Crushing Our Enemies]

Not only can a minister fire their deputy, they can also reappoint their deputy,should that deputy be recalled.

In other words, whether Tim remains Deputy Minister is, effectively, entirely out of the hands of the RA.

 

[Romanoffia]

Not only can a minister fire their deputy, they can also reappoint their deputy,should that deputy be recalled.

In other words, whether Tim remains Deputy Minister is, effectively, entirely out of the hands of the RA.

Which begs the question of whether or not the RA can constitutionally recall a deputy let alone a minister unless there is a criminal charge involved.

It would seem to me that a minister is obligated to replace a deputy that doesn't do their job and/or not appoint a deputy at all.

 

[Crushing Our Enemies]

Oh, constitutionally we certainly can, according to a recent court decision about what a government official is.

 

[Flemingovia]

Surely anyone who is required to take the oath of a government official is a government official? And therefore they are subject to recall.

 

[Great Bights Mum]

The crazy thing about all this is that there has not been one jot of discussion on Tim's job performance. What has he done? What hasn't he done that he should have done? What does the minister think? What does the Delegate think? They are the ones who are working or not working with him. Doesn't anyone even care?

*goes for the Amberen*

 

[mcmasterdonia]

I only appointed him a week or so ago GBM. The simple fact is that I could dismiss him before this recall vote concludes, or it could conclude, and I could reappoint him.

 

[Great Bights Mum]

In spite of your woulda-coulda-shoulda's you voted "Aye." And so did Jamie. Why do I have a feeling there is some funny business going on here that I don't know about?

 

[Sanctaria]

In spite of your woulda-coulda-shoulda's you voted "Aye." And so did Jamie. Why do I have a feeling there is some funny business going on here that I don't know about?

I too initially voted Aye, then changed it to Abstain because I wasn't sure if my reasons for voting Aye were valid, and then switched it back to Aye just there.

As for Jamie voting Aye, can't speak for him, but I believe he isn't too enamoured with Tim, so that might be a reason. I don't know why McM would have voted Aye, but I don't think there's anything fish going on, at large anyway.

 

[Flemingovia]

I only appointed him a week or so ago GBM. The simple fact is that I could dismiss him before this recall vote concludes, or it could conclude, and I could reappoint him.

yes, legally and constitutionally you could. But if you acted in such blatant defiance of the sovereignty of the Regional Assembly, I am sure it would be remembered by at least some members of this body, who would be sure to vote against you next time you stood for any election. And in TNP it does not take many votes to swing a ballot.

 

[Chasmanthe]

I only appointed him a week or so ago GBM. The simple fact is that I could dismiss him before this recall vote concludes, or it could conclude, and I could reappoint him.

yes, legally and constitutionally you could. But if you acted in such blatant defiance of the sovereignty of the Regional Assembly, I am sure it would be remembered by at least some members of this body, who would be sure to vote against you next time you stood for any election. And in TNP it does not take many votes to swing a ballot.

I now will probably not vote for McM next time he stands for an elected office in TNP.

I think it's quite low how the cabinet don't feel any need to explain their support or opposition to the members of the assembly.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm singling out McM when it's merely the typical contempt for transparent democratic accountability that we see week in, week out.

Speaking as a member of TSPCLU (not as an ambassador) I am not shocked by this debate (or lack of) merely saddened.