Freedom of Information Request: TNPU

Zyvetskistaahn

TNPer
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TNP Nation
Zyvetskistaahn
Discord
Zyvet#9958
Pursuant to clause 36 of Chapter 7 of the Legal Code of The North Pacific, I request the release of private government records as detailed below.

I request the release of such records as exist in relation to the decision to privatise or render independent of government The North Pacific University, said decision being announced here by the Minister of Culture. In particular, I request the release of: discussions in cabinet or executive council or any other organ consisting of the same or substantially the same members; discussions between the then Delegate and the Minister of Culture; discussions between the Minister of Culture and other Ministers; discussions between the Minister of Culture and their Deputy or Deputies; discussions between the Minister of Culture and the Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture; discussions between the Deputy Minister or Ministers of Culture and Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture; and, discussions between Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture.

I include discussions that have taken place on this forum, in relevant government discord servers and channels, and in private discussions by discord DM, forum PM, telegram or other similar medium (except that I do not include such private discussions insofar as they are only between the Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture).

Plainly, where conversations are between participants who are not discussing in their capacity as official but include incidental reference to the decision, I do not seek their disclosure, given they would not constitute government records; I do however assert that discussions in relevant government only fora, servers, channels or similar are inherently governmental records.

I also limit my request to records that cover the period between 12 January 2019 and 30 May 2019, except that where only part of forum thread would be included in the requested timeframe I request all of that record.
 
While I would note that there is no requirement for any purpose behind the making of a request to be disclosed, the reason I want the information is simply because I am curious about the decision. I don't intend to put it to any particular purpose, I am just interested.
 
While I would note that there is no requirement for any purpose behind the making of a request to be disclosed, the reason I want the information is simply because I am curious about the decision. I don't intend to put it to any particular purpose, I am just interested.

No there is no requirement. Just as there is no requirement that your FOIA request be interesting. In the public interest. Or even achievable for the incumbent to find the information you want.

But I figured if you’re going to waste my time with such a request, I may as well waste your time with such questions.

This is one reason some hate being Delegate. FOIA just drives conversations offsite and into areas they can’t be tracked.

The meaningless bureaucracy that will see me go dumpster diving rather than spend time on issues that matter... such as running the region or providing reports or information that is actually useful. No other government body is subject to such meaningless oversight.

Request acknowledged.
 
No there is no requirement. Just as there is no requirement that your FOIA request be interesting. In the public interest. Or even achievable for the incumbent to find the information you want.

But I figured if you’re going to waste my time with such a request, I may as well waste your time with such questions.

This is one reason some hate being Delegate. FOIA just drives conversations offsite and into areas they can’t be tracked.

The meaningless bureaucracy that will see me go dumpster diving rather than spend time on issues that matter... such as running the region or providing reports or information that is actually useful. No other government body is subject to such meaningless oversight.

Request acknowledged.

If I may, the executive is under an obligation to operate in a manner that is transparent. All nations in the region are guaranteed that fundamental right.

The idea that it is the need to comply with the law on freedom of information that drives attempts to evade it is ludicrous. It is an argument that would support having no transparency at all. If the executive was willing to be transparent as a matter of course there would not need to be any law on the matter. If the executive were willing to be transparent in compliance with the law there would be no issues of attempts to avoid it by going off site. It is the fact that the executive or parts thereof do not wish to be transparent that leads them to seek to avoid compliance with the law and it is that attitude which makes requests more difficult to comply with, not that the law exists.

In any event, I do not think it is right to say that the affairs of the University and the decision to privatise are not matters of public interest. It is an important institution of the region which was the subject of government effort to establish and revive and which has been at issue in elections. Certainly the decision to privatise, in particular, seemed to be a matter that attracted comment, including critical comment, from members of the public which would suggest a degree of public interest in the fate of the institution.
 
Response to Zyvetskistaahn’s FOIA Request

Zyvetskistaahn, October 16, 2019:

Pursuant to clause 36 of Chapter 7 of the Legal Code of The North Pacific, I request the release of private government records as detailed below.


I request the release of such records as exist in relation to the decision to privatise or render independent of government The North Pacific University, said decision being announced here by the Minister of Culture. In particular, I request the release of: discussions in cabinet or executive council or any other organ consisting of the same or substantially the same members; discussions between the then Delegate and the Minister of Culture; discussions between the Minister of Culture and other Ministers; discussions between the Minister of Culture and their Deputy or Deputies; discussions between the Minister of Culture and the Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture; discussions between the Deputy Minister or Ministers of Culture and Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture; and, discussions between Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture.


I include discussions that have taken place on this forum, in relevant government discord servers and channels, and in private discussions by discord DM, forum PM, telegram or other similar medium (except that I do not include such private discussions insofar as they are only between the Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture).


Plainly, where conversations are between participants who are not discussing in their capacity as official but include incidental reference to the decision, I do not seek their disclosure, given they would not constitute government records; I do however assert that discussions in relevant government only fora, servers, channels or similar are inherently governmental records.


I also limit my request to records that cover the period between 12 January 2019 and 30 May 2019, except that where only part of forum thread would be included in the requested timeframe I request all of that record.

TNP Legal Code:
Section 7.5: Freedom of Information Act

36. At any time a resident may request the release of any private record from the Government through the Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive.



Given my lack of involvement in the decision making process, I primarily delegated responsibility for handling this request to El Fiji Grande and Prydania. The below is written from the perspective of El Fiji Grande.


For the purposes of this request:

The serving delegate at the time was: El Fiji Grande

The serving Minister of Culture at the time was: Prydania

Other serving Executive Council members included: McMasterdonia (MoFA), Pallaith (MoCo), Francois Isidore (MoHA), Kranostav (MoWAA), and Bobberino (MoD)

The serving Deputy Ministers of Culture at the time were: Syrixia and Goyanes

The serving TNP University Chancellor was: Ethnon (Marcus Antonius)


I’d also like to note that both Prydania and I spoke with Castle Federation (Wonderess) about the TNPU decision. These logs will not be included as they fall outside our capacity as government officials, and are not under the purview of this request as is clarified at the end of your post.


No other Ministry of Culture staffers are deemed relevant for the purposes of the decision referenced by this FOIA request. Thus, all logs released will be discussions held solely between the individuals listed above. The time period of logs requested is limited to between 12 January 2019 and 30 May 2019. Certainly no conversations to spin off TNP University came prior to the May General Elections. As a result, all logs represent the period between 12 May 2019 and 30 May 2019. Note that avatars and emojis have been removed due to image formatting challenges.


Disclosure list:

  1. Discussions in cabinet or executive council or any other organ consisting of the same or substantially the same members

    mcmasterdonia

    05/27/2019


    Ghost should be fired for allowing the utilisation of state owned media to brain wash our citizens and proselytise for the catholic faith

    Empress Tlomz

    05/27/2019


    Flemingovianism is being threatened by the ostentatious display of heresy. Something really should be done

    mcmasterdonia

    05/27/2019


    It comes down to whether or not we value the separation of church and state. In the case of Flemingovianism there is an IC imperative that we don’t.

    In the case of Catholicism there is both an IC and OOC imperative that we don’t allow our institutions to be hijacked by fascism

    @El Fiji Grande I urge you to intervene immediately

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/27/2019


    We must not allow ourselves to succumb to such a menace.

    I second this.

    mcmasterdonia

    05/27/2019


    @Ghost (Pallaith) resign

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/27/2019


    @El Fiji Grande resign

    mcmasterdonia

    05/27/2019


    If Fiji refuses to fire ghost then that might be necessary

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/27/2019


    Which is why I proposed it

    mcmasterdonia

    05/27/2019


    If he does resign, I hope you run.

    We will need to restore order quickly. The NPA can help you enforce martial law.

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/27/2019


    Of course. I can smooth the ship, ensure an actually speedy transition, and ensure our enemies are cleansed.

    Prydania

    05/28/2019


    so joking aside....

    let's say Nightsong and I had done a show on Judaism. Would it have received this backlash?

    Prydania

    05/28/2019


    @El Fiji Grande regardless, I don't have a dog in the Catholic NBS show kurffufle.

    That being said...I'm not keen on limiting the University to NS-only topics. That would neuter a lot of its potential.

    If that's come from MA, the Chancellor, I'll talk to him. I'm just stating my case here in the event that it's an edict that came from above.

    El Fiji Grande

    05/28/2019


    I'm going to make a post about this in a bit. Working on it now.

    Prydania

    05/28/2019


    Regardless, I feel like I need to protest if a change is being made to TNPU without my consultation. I don't think I'm reaching to say that TNPU falls under Culture's purview.

    @mcmasterdonia @bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/28/2019


    no way it would have received the same backlash if I'm being real, Pry

    but in any event

    Prydania

    05/28/2019


    on the issue of TNP Uni, I've reached out to the Chancellor, and he has yet to hear of any plan to restrict content to NS-only matters.

    Q4lJK5F.png


    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/28/2019


    from what I knew I had no clue that the university as well is being restricted to NS only

    that wasn't clear to me

    all I gleaned was that this applied to NBS

    Prydania

    05/28/2019


    Wondress, in his thread, is going on about TNP Uni being NS only

    which concerned me as neither myself or the Chancellor were consulted on that

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/28/2019


    @El Fiji Grande is that the case?

    Empress Tlomz

    05/28/2019


    I have no issue with it. As long as me and @mcmasterdonia get to do our joint podcast

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/28/2019


    I think the university should remain open to all.

    Prydania

    05/28/2019


    yeah

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/28/2019


    hell even NBS, but that's my personal stance and the executive decision falls on Fiji and Ghost for such[/b]

    El Fiji Grande

    05/28/2019


    Here's my post responding to the recent controversy: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9190528/#post-10240627

    It explains my thoughts and reasoning for each decision made, and gives an overview of the whole history of NBS for clarity.

    I have to go for now, though, so I won't be able to hear any responses for a few hours.

    Prydania

    05/28/2019


    @El Fiji Grande thank you for your clarification on the matter

    El Fiji Grande

    05/28/2019


    Talk to you in a bit. Let me know if you have any further concerns.

    Prydania

    05/30/2019


    @El Fiji Grande I've been talking to MA about TNP University and your recent clarification re: the sort of content that government-operated outlets will produce.

    I feel that TNP University thrives by being a place to discuss anything that may be of academic interest. As such both myself and MA as Chancellor of TNP University would prefer it if the Uni were made independent of the Ministry of Culture, and thus the TNP government.(edited)

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    I'd agree with that.

    Prydania

    05/30/2019


    I can make a statement to that effect, letting the University "go"

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    It might be necessary to also create an independent charter for the university

    Prydania

    05/30/2019


    nods

    I'll let MA know

    https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9190331/

    that might be a good foundation for that

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    Indeed. You can take inspiration from the NSToday charter

    Marcus Antonius

    05/30/2019


    Exciting times

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    @mcmasterdonia - you wondered how NBS would handle someone trying to upload Nazi or otherwise grossly inappropriate or extremist content. Much of this new policy is derived from handling extreme cases by setting a clear precedent that government productions can only handle NS-related topics. However, even when the University is no longer attached to the government, I'm certain complaints will be raised at these sort of topics. @Prydania @Marcus Antonius - it might be worth considering how the University will handle these sort of topics.

    Prydania

    05/30/2019


    nods

    I'll pass it along

    also this

    https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9190543/

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    TNPU will ultimately be liable to admins then, as opposed to the IC TNP government

    Prydania

    05/30/2019


    nods

    @El Fiji Grande could you find me a link to NSToday's charter? I can't seem to find it

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    Sure

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J3cOjCOrEmAwdaoUOkavxIZdjU1_w2nrmIi4nqNGQBw/edit?usp=sharing

    Prydania

    05/30/2019


    thanks!

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    Depends on how serious you'd like it to be.

    I think having a preamble/statement of purpose combined with a formalized version of what you posted earlier that Marcus Antonius had created for TNPU would be enough.

    Prydania

    05/30/2019


    nods

    I'll let him know!

    mcmasterdonia

    05/30/2019


    That was a very quick decision on the university. I’m not very fond of decision making on the run.

    It leaves a huge number of questions about how it will operate and who will appoint the Chancellor

    Also presumably means we have to go through another level of approval if we want to use the universities for government events

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/30/2019


    Personally? I would like to see the Chancellor appointed by the Delegate, in the same vein as the Lead GA

    mcmasterdonia

    05/30/2019


    That’s how it used to be done anyway. MiniCult would advise the Delegate of some options and they’d make a choice. Or the Delegate goes off and does it themselves.

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/30/2019


    That's how I'd like to see it done, in lieu of a Minister of Entertainment.

    Ghost (Pallaith)

    05/30/2019


    I’m generally very wary of anything being carved out of the government. It should only happen when there’s a very clear issue with it being run by the government and it’s the best way to keep it going. I don’t believe this situation was enough to warrant this extraordinary step. I will note that utilizing the university was something I wanted to do last term and it proved more elusive than I thought. There’s a variety of reasons for this, and it’s fair to say that with Culture doing everything it does, the university sometimes is tricky to fold into the rest of the business. It may do better this way, but it very much will be an experiment.


    I think that things like this should probably go around the room first in the future. It’s sometimes hard to take something like this back, though I suspect the university will more easily lend itself to collaboration with the government than...other things might, and I think if it needs the help it can always be reincorporated in the future

    Bob, Deputy Minister of Gloria

    05/30/2019


    ^^^

    mcmasterdonia

    05/30/2019


    I was also the Delegate that brought back the university from the dead. It was buried deep in the archives because it had been privatised and then had a ridiculous charter and it died.

    The beauty of it being in government is we can take it in any direction required and can change who runs it and how it’s run at any time

    Ghost (Pallaith)

    05/30/2019


    It’s my understanding this decision was made specifically to seek a solution to the controversy about RL topics being the subject of broadcasts even if they’re sponsored by the university

    We never really talked about that here, instead there were several conversations scattered around. That’s why I think it would be helpful in the future if we as a cabinet are involved in these sorts of things, so that we can more easily find a consensus and a cohesive uniform policy

    El Fiji Grande

    05/30/2019


    Good points above on TNPU.

    I'll keep that in mind going forward.

  2. Discussions between the then Delegate and the Minister of Culture

    No such logs exist within the time period specified.

  3. Discussions between the Minister of Culture and other Ministers

    Prydania worked only with the Delegate and TNPU Chancellor to coordinate a plan. The Minister of Culture dealt with the matter directly in order to provide a timely government response. As a result, there exist no logs in this category.
  4. Discussions between the Minister of Culture and their Deputy or Deputies

    Prydania worked only with the Delegate and TNPU Chancellor to coordinate a plan. The Minister of Culture dealt with the matter directly in order to provide a timely government response. As a result, there are no logs in this category.
  5. Discussions between the Minister of Culture and the Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture

    LordGigaIce

    05/28/2019


    howdy! I just wanted to clarify something in my new post as Minister of Culture

    the University isn't shifting to only NS-related content is it?


    Marcus Antonius

    05/28/2019


    Not as far as I know - I would hope not.

    I know Fiji wants to put a lot of NS/TNP stuff in there.

    I want the University to remain open to all subjects.


    LordGigaIce

    05/28/2019


    nods


    Marcus Antonius

    05/30/2019


    What do you think of Fiji's comment about TNP University being independent?

    https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9190528/page-3#post-10241085


    LordGigaIce

    05/30/2019


    I think that it's in the best interests of the TNP University to be independent


    Marcus Antonius

    05/30/2019


    I agree

    I have also mentioned this to MJ


    LordGigaIce

    05/30/2019


    I just voiced my support for an independent University to the Delegate

    so we'll get on that

    I'm going to make a post as Minister of Culture essentially divorcing the Ministry of Culture from TNP University.

    It might be a requirement that you draft a charter independent from the TNP government, however

  6. Discussions between the Deputy Minister or Ministers of Culture and Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture

    There are no logs in this category.
  7. Discussions between Chancellor of the University and other relevant staff of the Ministry of Culture

    NOTE: One category not specifically requested are discussions between the Chancellor of the University and the Delegate themselves. Since the delegate is ostensibly responsible for the Ministry of Culture, I’ll include such conversations under this category, for completeness.


    The following messages fall outside the FOIA request timeframe, but are worth including due to relevancy:


    Marcus Antonius

    05/31/2019


    g6PEWJL.png


    El Fiji Grande

    06/03/2019


    I will refuse the invitation, at least for now. Ask me again when I'm no longer delegate.


    Marcus Antonius

    06/03/2019


    No worries Fiji :wink:

    No other logs exist within this category.





Signed,

McMasterdonia

Delegate of The North Pacific
 
Last edited:
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