[Rule Proposal] Fixing the Colonial Empire Problems

[Norsia]

Colonial empires are very common in The North Pacific’s Eras Role Play setting and yet over time, they have become more and more problematic. One solution that was proposed and passed was that no veteran role player with a historical colonial empire could ask a new role player if they want to have their nation be a former colony within the first two weeks of that person joining the Discord server/role play community. However, this rule can be waived if the new role player approaches a veteran role player and asks to be a part of the colonial empire. While this solution is good in theory and has held up relatively well in practice, it does not account for peer pressure nor the effect that larger historical colonial empires have on the Eras RP setting. As such a new solution is needed to address the colonial empire problem that is plaguing the Eras Role Play community. The idea proposed below would be enacted retroactively and affect already established colonial empires and newly established colonial empires in the future.

• Empires can have a maximum of 10 colonies and/or subjects. This will allow for an empire, at its maximum extent, to account for roughly 1/6 of the Eras map. With this limit in place, empires would be constrained to staying within a more reasonable limit that fits the Eras setting.
  
  
• Empires must have a clear and decisive reason for why they have said colony and/or subject. This could be as simple as resource acquisition but should never cross the line into the reason being “just because” or someone saying, “I want to be a colony because others are doing it”.
  
  
• When a player agrees that their nation is to be a part of an empire, both role players are entering into an agreement of mutual understanding and to collaborate as equals. This agreement and partnership should be built on understanding, trust, and fairness. While many role players who have colonies and/or subjects are given a large amount of influence and control over their nation during the colonial time period, there is the possibility of exploitation on the part of the role player who has the colonial empire nation. Should a role player ever find that their nation is being exploited as a colony and/or subject, they should feel free to find fairer footing by any legitimate means, such as exercising the right to leave a colonial empire entirely. Should fairer footing not be found and a disagreement breaks out, the RP Conclave and/or the Moderation Team can intervene.
  
  
• Though peer pressure is not intentional, it does exist as a side effect of the way that empires exist in the RP setting. It comes about when a role player has a colonial empire with many colonies and/or subjects it instills a sense of peer pressure wherein new players feel they need to make their new nation a historic colony and/or subject because a large percentage of the active role players also have their nations as historical colonies and/or subjects.
  
  
• Half of the active player base of the Eras RP setting should not be a colony and/or subject of a historical colonial empire. It is unrealistic to the scope of the Eras setting.
  
  
• Economic cities, special administration zones, and trade ports, all possible within the context of creating a colonial empire or a trade empire, would have to eventually be returned to their countries of origin.
  
  
• Colonial empires that are found to be in breach of this new ruling will have to give up excess colonies and/or subjects.
  

Spoiler: Credits

Majority credit goes to Nightsong for taking my rough bullet points, expanding upon and putting them into a clean and readable format and structure overnight.

 

[Highton]

I assume already existing colonies and empires would be grandfathered in? Because I think Syrixia, for example, would be over the cap but I’m not sure.

CC: @Syrixia

 

[Nightsong]

I assume already existing colonies and empires would be grandfathered in? Because I think Syrixia, for example, would be over the cap but I’m not sure.

As this proposal is written it would apply and be enacted retroactively against already existing colonial empires and then also apply to any colonial empires established in the future. It is designed to bring about a level playing field to colonial empires and to ensure that no one role player can run rampant and roughshod and had an empire that controls a large chunk of the map.

 

[Goyanes]

• Half of the active player base of the Eras RP setting should not be a colony and/or subject of a historical colonial empire. It is unrealistic to the scope of the Eras setting.

Most of Earth outside of Europe was colonized by Europe at some point. I don't see why that would be unrealistic.

 

[Nightsong]

Most of Earth outside of Europe was colonized by Europe at some point. I don't see why that would be unrealistic.

Let's look at a hypothetical situation involving the Goyanean, Andrennian, Malorian, and Syrixian empires. In this situation and under the rules of this proposal, each one has the maximum of ten colonies, that's 67% of the world accounted for by just four colonial empires. This proposal isn't trying to kill colonial empires, colonies, etc, it is putting in reasonable limits that fit within the Eras RP setting that we all role play in and to ensure that one single role player doesn't run rampant with how many colonies they have thus creating a monopoly of being a colonial power.

Edit: I also don't get this whole hangup of comparing colonial powers on Eras to colonial powers on Earth. One, it isn't even comparable seeing as Eras is tiny and just a fraction of the whole planet. Two, we don't need to copy every single thing from real life 100% exactly.

 

[Syrixia]

I understand that what I'm about to say may be perceived as biased. I will not deny that. I possess one of if not the largest (depending on whether you count the Kianese) colonial empires in Eras. I must, however, ask solemnly that my fellow Conclave Members, the RP Moderation Team, and the general public at least respect what I am about to say in this post and in future posts I may make in this thread, Discord, or anywhere else concerning this topic. I know who I am. I also know that I have an opinion. I sincerely urge my fellow Conclave Members to not discount it.

Points 1-3: As someone with at least 13 players in collaboration with me concerning colonial history, I am naturally concerned about a 10-colony limit. @Highton is right that I am over the proposed cap and I will not sugarcoat that. But I have never written colonial history with anyone "just because", and on multiple occasions I have even refused people's requests for their nation to become a colony of my nation. I have consistently written, in a very collaborative manner, wholesome, detailed, and profound histories with numerous individuals, and I know that others who possess empires have as well. Hell, on one occasion a person whose nation was colonized by mine wrote most of the details of their colonial history with my nation.

I firmly believe that both role players- the colonizer and the colonized- are indeed entering into an agreement of mutual understanding and to collaborate as equals. This agreement and partnership should indeed be built on understanding, trust, and fairness, and I strive to have dialogue, build understanding, and always, always, always, respect consent. It is their nation, after all- it is ultimately their intellectual property and they are allowing me to participate in it. And again, I know that at the very least most others who possess empires treat it the same way as well. I certainly cannot think of any time in recent memory where a colonizer abused their relationship with a player whose nation theirs colonized.

I believe that empire size should be enforced holistically, just as I believe map claims should be enforced holistically. For instance, I can safely say that I believe my empire, at the moment, is at a size that I do not think it should exceed, and I have no plans to write new colonial histories at the moment. Each person who has an empire uses that empire to tell a story. The story with mine, for example, is that Syrixia is a diverse, developed, cosmopolitan nation; a state born from and ruled from an island that has been and is a power at sea and in trade. This is a direct result of its colonial legacy, as before the Syrixians set sail, my nation had been essentially isolationist for a long time.

I think hard limits will essentially make every empire equal once they all hit 10, and that's not very realistic. Now, I know what some people are going to say. "Syr, you're just saying you don't like it because you have over 10 and you wanna be super big." And you have every right to say that. But that's not why I'm saying a hard limit isn't a good idea. Firstly, nations are different. Some nations are better located for trade, and have larger populations, better technology, and more resources than other nations. For instance, how did Syrixia beat Goyanes and Andrenne in the 1st Nordic-Imperial War? If I had to say? It was because of more advanced technology and more expansive naval capability. How did Goyanes and Andrenne beat Syrixia in the 2nd Nordic-Imperial War? If I had to say? It was because of the circumstances Syrixia was going through at the time, a fired up, desperate, and larger manpower base on the part of the Nordic nations, and much more sophisticated naval capabilities than the 1st War.

As well, a hard limit disadvantages those already at the limit. For instance, say a would work well with Syrixia, and both myself and that player sincerely want to make it happen. As Highton said, I am not just at the proposed cap; I am over it. This therefore makes such a collaboration impossible. And of course, since I am over the limit, both I and those in collaboration with me would be forced to choose which histories to essentially delete wholesale. That's just not right, especially considering I know that certain nations have shaped their modern identities around their time within an empire. To name just some: Tlakaatland, Iraelia, the Vestrugat, definitely Demescia and Krevt, Ascalon, Skanda, and more.

In my opinion, people who possess empires should, firstly, have the maturity to self-regulate. I myself, as I have previously mentioned, do this; and though I cannot speak for others who possess empires, I can say that I believe they have the maturity to do so as well, and that I am confident they self-regulate too. Going back to the "just because" idea, I think this is a good idea, and can help us enforce empire size without setting hard limits. People who possess empires should definitely be able to concretely justify why, ICly, they possess a colony. I know I can, and I also strongly believe that many others who possess empires can as well.

Point 4: I have never personally seen peer pressure be a problem, but I can definitely see the potential it has to pop up, and I think it is definitely possible that others have seen peer pressure in action; and I welcome anyone who has to speak on it. I think there are two good solutions for this. 1: ban all peddling within the first two weeks of a new player joining the server, and ban any new players from joining their nations to an empire within those two weeks, even if they want to join one. This will allow people to get a feel for the community and to make an informed, justified, decision concerning who to join.

And, 2: ban all unjustified peddling following the lapsing of the initial two week period. If you think someone's nation could realistically work within your empire, then you should be able to justify to them why it could work. If you cannot justify why it could work, and just want MOAR LAND, then that definitely qualifies under "just because" and should not be tolerated.

Point 5: This is yet another hard limit, so already I am not a fan. Say for example half of Eras has nations that were colonized, and someone else wants their nation to be colonized. They now have to wait until one of those nations is deleted from the map. That's not right, especially since we're talking about the active player base, which is already hard to define. In addition, Goy is also right- the idea that half of the active player base of the Eras RP setting should not be a colony and/or subject of a historical colonial empire is not unrealistic, and in fact, goes against historical precedent.

According to a study done by Mt. Holyoke College, in the year 1900, 90.4% of Africa was controlled by Europe; 98.9% of Polynesia was controlled by Europe; 56.5% of Asia was controlled by Europe; and all of Australia and New Zealand was controlled by Europe. And, even though the era of exploration into the Americas was long since over by that time, 27.2% of the Americas were still controlled by Europe; and as I just mentioned, that number used to be much, much higher. And, according to a study done by Caltech, from 1492 to 1914, Europeans conquered or colonized more than 80% of the entire world. So, @Nightsong, 67% in comparison is actually pretty good.

Point 6: I agree with this. I would say, at the moment, Syrixia historically possessed two such zones. Both were returned. IIRC, Andrenne also possessed trade ports in Skanda; and these were returned as well.

Point 7: I obviously disagree with this; see everything I've said so far as to why. Now that being said, how do I think we should punish people in breach of this ruling? I would say that a censuring is the most effective tactic. For example, if someone possessing an empire is found to have been in an unfair relationship with a player whose nation their empire has colonized, the Conclave should force them to fix what they have done, and take into account the wishes of the other player; and they should supervise the colonizing player in question, on a sort of probationary period. If nothing changes, whether it is this situation or another, then harsher punishments can be doled out.

But yeah; that's just my two cents. I look forward to continued discussion on this subject, and I'm always open to talk.

 

[Nightsong]

@Syrixia, you cite historical precedent yet that historical precedent doesn't exist within the Eras RP setting so we do not need to follow real life 100%, we can instead be unique and come up with a different narrative for the Eras RP setting. From reading over your comments, it sounds like you do not like the hard caps that are being proposed because it would affect not only your nation but also lead to everyone else rushing to hit the ten colony cap and thus all ending up being the same. I completely disagree, if that was going to happen, it would already have happened with other role players rushing to beat you at being the best or biggest colonial empire in Eras RP. Anyways, yes you have significantly world built your colonial empire and its history and I respect you for that even if some of the colonial holdings of the Syrixian Empire do not make sense with the layout of the current map. Honestly though, at this point the fact that your empire consists of collaboration among fourteen different people does lend itself to causing peer pressure among the rest of the RP community, even if it is unintentional and not immediately noticeable. Especially when you consider that the active player base in Eras RP is quite small to begin with.

 

[Ninhundland]

Would decolonization have to happen to all overseas terrorities by a certain time? I guess the timing would depend but I’m aware that second nations are now banned from being colonies.


Is this rule only applying to the larger colonial empires? As I don’t see ones, like myself with only a couple colonies across Eras anywhere close to the limit. Honestly I don’t see a problem with the 10 colony limit at the moment but that might change if the limit is put into place and smaller colonial empires begin to get new members.

 

[Norsia]

Recognizing the potential for peer pressure to be a concerning factor in the present and future.
Recognizing territorial hard caps are generally unreasonable in the face of ambitious colonial entities

The revised point list of this proposal comes.

point 1: Recognizing the concerns of the empires over a colonial hard cap, and important existing colonies to the integrity of Eras Lore. and Recognizing that self-regulation is important but can fail.

option 1: Empires have a soft cap of 10 colonies and/or subjects. Empires would be constrained to staying within a more reasonable limit that fits the Eras setting, to exceed this soft cap potential they would need to ask Conclave or Moderation for assent.

Option 2: Empires have a hard cap of 10 colonies and/or subjects. Empires would be constrained to staying within a more reasonable limit that fits the Eras setting. they may never exceed this colony hard cap but their preexisting colonies will be grandfathered in. if they are over the hard cap and their colonies CTE their colonies player will have a two week grace period to return to the map and active roleplay. On top of this, the Empire player will have that same two week grace period to find a new colony player. once this grace period expires if they have not maintained status quo their maximum number of colonies will adjust accordingly.

point 2: Recognizing the potential for peer pressure to be a concerning factor in the present and future. An amendment to the stipulation that Empires may not actively suggest and proposition new players that have not been a member of the community for no less than 2 weeks. New players that have not been a part of the community for 2 weeks or more may not attempt to join an empire. this two week period will afford new players to acclimate to Eras, the community and make rational, justified and informed decisions.

2A ban all unjustified peddling following the lapsing of the initial two week period. If you think someone's nation could realistically work within your empire, then you should be able to justify to them why it could work. If you cannot justify why it could work, and just want MOAR LAND, then that definitely qualifies under "just because" and should not be tolerated.

2B When a player agrees that their nation is to be a part of an empire, both role players are entering into an agreement of mutual understanding and to collaborate as equals. This agreement and partnership should be built on understanding, trust, and fairness.

Point 3: Economic cities, special administration zones, and trade ports, all possible within the context of creating a colonial empire or a trade empire, would have to eventually be returned to their countries of origin.

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Points that did not make the cut

Half of the active player base of the Eras RP setting should not be a colony and/or subject of a historical colonial empire. It is unrealistic to the scope of the Eras setting.

Colonial empires that are found to be in breach of this new ruling will have to give up excess colonies and/or subjects.

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Feel free to keep suggesting edits and additions, this is evolving and I think its going in a good direction for everyone.

@Ninhundland Your question answers itself. All colonies at some point in history have disbanded. if you have modern day colonies your nation is adhering to both really antiquated values and would probably be outright denounced. On top of this. this new ruling would apply to ALL nations with colonies/subjects.

 

[Syrixia]

@Zyvun:

Point 1: Recognizing the concerns of the empires over a colonial hard cap, and important existing colonies to the integrity of Eras Lore. and Recognizing that self-regulation is important but can fail.
- Option 1: Empires have a soft cap of 10 colonies and/or subjects. Empires would be constrained to staying within a more reasonable limit that fits the Eras setting, to exceed this soft cap potential they would need to ask Conclave or Moderation for assent. I can definitely agree with this one over Option 2. I think this is much more workable and involves much less red tape. It also is more of a holistic concept whilst still codifying standards.
- Option 2: Empires have a hard cap of 10 colonies and/or subjects. Empires would be constrained to staying within a more reasonable limit that fits the Eras setting. they may never exceed this colony hard cap but their preexisting colonies will be grandfathered in. if they are over the hard cap and their colonies CTE their colonies player will have a two week grace period to return to the map and active roleplay. On top of this, the Empire player will have that same two week grace period to find a new colony player. once this grace period expires if they have not maintained status quo their maximum number of colonies will adjust accordingly. I disagree with this; see above.

Point 2: Recognizing the potential for peer pressure to be a concerning factor in the present and future. An amendment to the stipulation that Empires may not actively suggest and proposition new players that have not been a member of the community for no less than 2 weeks. New players that have not been a part of the community for 2 weeks or more may not attempt to join an empire. this two week period will afford new players to acclimate to Eras, the community and make rational, justified and informed decisions.
-2a: ban all unjustified peddling following the lapsing of the initial two week period. If you think someone's nation could realistically work within your empire, then you should be able to justify to them why it could work. If you cannot justify why it could work, and just want MOAR LAND, then that definitely qualifies under "just because" and should not be tolerated.
-2b: When a player agrees that their nation is to be a part of an empire, both role players are entering into an agreement of mutual understanding and to collaborate as equals. This agreement and partnership should be built on understanding, trust, and fairness. I agree with all of this.

Point 3: Economic cities, special administration zones, and trade ports, all possible within the context of creating a colonial empire or a trade empire, would have to eventually be returned to their countries of origin. I also agree with this.

NOTE: Concerning how punishment is doled out, following comments from Pry on Discord:

Another thing...something I’ll need to insist on from Moderation...

"Colonial empires that are found to be in breach of this new ruling will have to give up excess colonies and/or subjects."

This isn’t going to work...Conclave deals with canon. Not discipline. That’s Moderation’s job.

I'm inclined to agree. We should not dole out punishments.