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[GA - Discarded] Repeal "Ban on Secret Treaties"
Topic Started: Jul 10 2018, 04:01 PM (149 Views)
TlomzKrano
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Repeal "Ban on Secret Treaties"
Category: Repeal | GA #408
Proposed by: [nation]Jocospor[/nation] | Onsite Topic



Quote:
 
General Assembly Resolution #408 "Ban on Secret Treaties" (Category: Furtherment of Democracy; Strength: Mild) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

The General Assembly,

Appreciating that General Assembly Resolution #408 (herein GAR#408) contains relevant and significant content, and was likely conceived without malice.

Concerned, however, with various aspects of GAR#408.

Noting that GAR#408 lists only the negative affects of what it terms "secret diplomacy." Wishing to clarify that such negotiations can indeed be of benefit, for reasons including but not limited to the following:

Secret alliances between various member states during wartime can often check the balance of power and lead to swifter resolutions, particularly if said alliances are being practised by member states acting defensibly; and

"Ambiguous relations" (defined as: "relations and/or diplomatic agreements that are not necessarily codified and made publicly available") between various member states can often act as a deterrent to aggressive nations, since such nations are more likely to lie dormant than risk involving themselves in what could potentially become a lost cause.

Further noting that GAR#408 concentrates only on "secret diplomacy" taking place during wartime. Understanding that "secret diplomacy" can operate in many other sectors, including but not limited to trade, and convinced that secret diplomacy has the capability to, in this instance, foster economic advantages.

Concluding that the disadvantages within GAR#408 outweigh the advantages.

Therefore, repeals GAR#408 Ban On Secret Treaties.


Voting Instructions:
  • Vote For if you want the Delegate to vote For the resolution.
  • Vote Against if you want the Delegate to vote Against the resolution.
  • Vote Abstain if you want the Delegate to abstain from voting on this resolution.
  • Vote Present if you are personally abstaining from this vote.


Detailed opinions with your vote are appreciated and encouraged!
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TlomzKrano
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Ministry of World Assembly Affairs IFV:
The resolution "Ban on Secret Treaties" sought to end the deleterious effects of secret diplomacy, asserting that such conduct fostered an atmosphere of misunderstanding and miscalculation which ultimately resulted in greater conflict within and among member nations. The proposal at vote rejects this notion, asserting that the resolution had failed to account for the 'positive' aspects of secret diplomacy at the time of its passing. We find these claims of the supposed benefits of secret treaties in this proposal unconvincing, however, unsubstantiated either in the text of the proposal or other explanation by the author. Holding that the content of repeals should be based upon a compelling argument, we believe the proposal at vote fails to achieve this standard.

In accordance with the reasoning above, the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote Against this proposal.
Edited by TlomzKrano, Jul 11 2018, 04:57 PM.
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The Constitutional Monarchy of [nation]Kranostav[/nation]

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Bobberino
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NPA Officer

For
Lieutenant (LT) in the North Pacific Army (OP count: 52)
Executive Staff in Communications, WA Affairs, Home Affairs, Culture
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TlomzKrano
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Strongly against

1) This was campaigned for by the author so thats why it has received so much support.

2) Arguments are weak and make very lofty assumptions (expounded on this soon)

3) Author is not listening to criticism/advise on the forum to improve their work or even make it stomach-able for the WA
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Deputy Attorney General
Deputy Minister of World Assembly Affairs
Ambassador to the International Democratic Union


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The Constitutional Monarchy of [nation]Kranostav[/nation]

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Sil Dorsett
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How we voted before: http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9079896/
The Principality of Sil Dorsett
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Sanjurika
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Argh?

Against
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bowloftoast
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For.
The original legislation is a bit of a morass, and probably shouldn't have passed in the first place. Regardless of the context of that moment, that line about feline animals makes a farce of the whole legislation. No way on Earth something that ridiculous should be on the books, as law.
I'm in agreement with the author of the repeal, that the initial legislation lacks a balanced perspective, makes some rather large assumptions, and fast-tracks to worst case scenarios.
While I think there is something of value in the initial legislation, I see no harm in repealing it in its current form, and making way for a similar piece of legislation that treats its subject with greater respect.
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flemingovia
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Devenir Gris

Against. Whatever your opinion of the original resolution, sloppy poor drafting such as this should not be rewarded.
5. Forum administration will have 14 days to evaluate the citizenship applicant and verify that they are not using a proxy or evading a judicially-imposed penalty.

Happy Days


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please note that all comments made by Flemingovia (hereafter referred to as "the poster") should be taken to be prefaced with the phrase "I believe" whether or not the phrase "I believe" is actually used in the post. Therefore the poster is not liable to any charges of fraud, slander, libel or any other criminal or civil complaint resulting from this post (see TNP v Grosse, 2013). By continuing to read this post you signify your acceptance of these terms and conditions. if you do not agree to these terms, this post is not intended for you and should not be read.


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BMWSurfer
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Still dont know what im doing

Against. This is a garbage proposal that proves that anything can make quorum if itís campaigned for.
BMWSurfer
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Stoskavanya1


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Imperium Anglorum
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Delegate for Europe

The proposed repeal contains basically three arguments: (1) secret treaties may be useful at defeating a foe, (2) secret treaties produce deterrence, and (3) secret treaties may be useful at changing the terms of trade.

Further examination shows these are simply logically false or, more generously, produce harm nations employing such tactics.

Argument 1 is an invitation for nations to deceive each other about what gets what out of a war. This encourages states to overpromise. Overpromising creates ripe conditions for further conflict. The World Assembly has an ethical obligation to prevent future conflict. A body made up of persons which have ethical obligations does not absolve those persons of those obligations. And nations do not have an interest in throwing themselves into wars in which they are unsure of victory.

A real world example of this is Italy after the First World War, where territories from the Austro-Hungarian Empire were not transferred as promised at in the postwar settlement, leading to the rise of strong nationalist movements. Similarly, there was significant conflict in the postwar Near East, where Arabia was engulfed in internecine warfare due to broken promises by the Entente. The former led, in part, to the Second World War. The latter still lives with us today, 100 years hence. These kinds of issues, and the complicated network of secret alliances the caused the war, are why American President Woodrow Wilson proposed the elimination of secret diplomacy in his Fourteen points.

Argument 2 just can't possibly be true. You cannot deter anyone if you don't tell them that you are ready to defend yourself. It's the same way that someone won't burgle your house if they can see signs noting security systems. Or, that someone won't try to beat you up if they don't have a good chance of winning. The proposal is arguing that secret treaties produce deterrence, but simply put, if an invading force doesn't know about costs, it doesn't appear in their decision making.

Argument 3 also can't possibly be true. If you want to create trade agreements with secret treaties, how could someone effectively do trade if the government has concealed tariff rates from them? Or if the breadth of the free trade zone is unknown, meaning they don't know from whom and to whom they can sell their goods? Both of these create significant risk, which increases the expected costs of doing business, leading to people doing less of it. Either way, nations are better off with more transparency.

I think that if one is going to propose a repeal, one should have decent reasons. What we have here are reasons which mostly don't make much sense, where nations taking the actions that the proposal claims they will take would in fact endanger themselves. That's not reasonable or rational for a nation to do.
Edited by Imperium Anglorum, Jul 11 2018, 06:29 AM.
Delegate for [region]Europe[/region]. Representative Plenipotentiary to the North Pacific. WALL staff, Europeia.

Author of 20 GA Resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communique and Regional Records
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Siwale
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Voting AGAINST
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yunor


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Panama Coalition
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Imperium Anglorum
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Delegate for Europe

I would like to inform all of you that the proposal at vote (and the subject of the matter here) has been ruled illegal by the GA Secretariat and will be discarded.
Delegate for [region]Europe[/region]. Representative Plenipotentiary to the North Pacific. WALL staff, Europeia.

Author of 20 GA Resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communique and Regional Records
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