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Vacancy Bill
Topic Started: Mar 9 2018, 07:02 PM (845 Views)
Darcania
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>>> @requires(fluff=True)

Vacancy Bill
 
1. Section 4.2, clause 9 will be amended as follows:
Legal Code
Section 4.2
9. A "vacancy" in an office occurs when the holder of it resigns, is removed, or abandons it. An office is abandoned when its holder does not log onto the regional forums for two weeks, or when an election winner or appointee fails to post the Oath of Office. Pending an election, a vacancy may be temporarily filled as provided by the Constitution, this Legal Code, or a rule adopted by the appropriate body.

Annotated



With the recent removal of Leaves of Absences, and with the more recent declaration of Yukkira's leaving for a month, it occurred to me that we still have a leave of absence of sorts given to government officials through the wording in clause 9. As I see it, two weeks without logging in to the forum is already long enough to leave even with prior notice, and so I propose we remove that wording. There is also the matter of how official that prior notice has to be. Is a private notice to the staff or to the appointer enough, or should it be public? Should the prior notice be located in a specific location on the forum? Is a public Discord notice enough? These are questions that we could answer, but it's best to either make it clear or remove it, and I think it better to remove it.

I've left an exemption for Yukkira to officially recognize his current leave, and to make extra certain this bill could not be interpreted as retroactive. EDIT: Exemption removed.

Draft 1
Edited by Darcania, Apr 4 2018, 08:42 PM.
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Siwale
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Full support.
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Sil Dorsett
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I might ask Yukkira to step in and clarify the leave of absence, but I don't believe it was a full month off of the forums entirely. The way I read the notice, I think it was more of a break from government service, so I would question whether granting Yukkira an exception to the abandonment clause is necessary. I suppose it doesn't hurt just in case, though.
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Crushing Our Enemies
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I don't have a problem with the implementation clause, since I'm fairly sure that even if we didn't have it, the Bill of Rights would protect Yukkira from removal (the part that forbids ex post facto laws). The just formalizes that intention, and hopefully keeps it out of court.
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Darcania
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>>> @requires(fluff=True)

Crushing Our Enemies
Mar 10 2018, 12:45 PM
I don't have a problem with the implementation clause, since I'm fairly sure that even if we didn't have it, the Bill of Rights would protect Yukkira from removal (the part that forbids ex post facto laws). The just formalizes that intention, and hopefully keeps it out of court.
That's the main point of it, yes. I doubt it will have any actual effect but it's better to make it explicit anyway rather than implicit through the Bill of Rights.
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Baker Park
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so, the law of unintended consequences comes into play here? A perfectly reasonable clause in an existing law is repealed on a capricious whim, and then less than 3 months following that an exception is now a priority, despite the fact that according to the transcript of debate, the exception isn't actually needed at all? We have a Deputy Minister of Culture who can handle the workload:
http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/post/?mode=2&type=2&f=3037975&t=9088405&p=10121322&qhash=11c0ce647135fb3a476eaa025e20b64d

and as mentioned a few moments ago, the parameters of continuity of activity have been modified since the original section was adopted.

Either the Bill is out of order on it's merit, or is unnecessary, seeing as how it is introduced strictly as a benefit for a single member. There is no affect on Game Play whatsoever.

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Sil Dorsett
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Quote:
 
There is no affect(sic) on Game Play whatsoever.
You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread. This proposal is not a roleplaying proposal. It is a government maintenance proposal that alters a law.

Anyways, although the 2nd clause may not be needed, it is a clarification that Yukkira gave notice under the old law and the new law cannot apply to Yukkira because of the prohibition of ex post facto laws.
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The rationale for this proposal is sound - since we no longer extend leaves of absences to citizens, it doesn't make sense for government officials to have them either.
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Baker Park
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Sil Dorsett
Mar 11 2018, 06:27 PM
Quote:
 
There is no affect(sic) on Game Play whatsoever.
You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread. This proposal is not a roleplaying proposal. It is a government maintenance proposal that alters a law.

Anyways, although the 2nd clause may not be needed, it is a clarification that Yukkira gave notice under the old law and the new law cannot apply to Yukkira because of the prohibition of ex post facto laws.
Quote:
 
There is no affect(sic) on Game Play whatsoever.

Good looking out. I make no excuse for a word used incorrectly. I hope your pedantic fetish applies to your own posts.

Quote:
 
You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread.

Specific words have actual meanings. I did no such thing....and this point that you somehow attribute to me to some spite or malice from a completely different subject is completely divorced from Your Declaration in the submitted bill (that You introduced) to repeal the section of the Code which now requires a review and exemption.

Quote:
 
Anyways, although the 2nd clause may not be needed,


I object to the second clause on its merit; if it "may not" be needed, there is no legal purpose to be included in the draft. I move it be stricken.

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Darcania
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>>> @requires(fluff=True)

Baker Park
Mar 12 2018, 07:31 AM
Good looking out. I make no excuse for a word used incorrectly. I hope your pedantic fetish applies to your own posts.
Watch yourself. I will not have any thread in the Regional Assembly devolve into personal attacks. This thread, and in fact all threads here, is for debates on proposals, not snipes on your fellow citizens' characters.

Baker Park
Mar 12 2018, 07:31 AM
Specific words have actual meanings. I did no such thing....and this point that you somehow attribute to me to some spite or malice from a completely different subject is completely divorced from Your Declaration in the submitted bill (that You introduced) to repeal the section of the Code which now requires a review and exemption.
Sil Dorsett has not attributed malice to you. Neither has he introduced this bill. I am the one who proposed this bill.

Baker Park
Mar 12 2018, 07:31 AM
I object to the second clause on its merit; if it "may not" be needed, there is no legal purpose to be included in the draft. I move it be stricken.
No. One need only see my post and COE's post to see why it is still seen as necessary, even if it may end up having no actual effect.
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Lord Ravenclaw
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I like this Baker Park guy, they remind me of a more amateurish, less refined version of Cormac back from 2013. Throw some Douria into it and bake for 30 minutes at GM 5 and you'll get something that makes somewhat more sense than the tripe I've seen thus far from them.

That said, since I appear to have stumbled upon this - I'd agree with COE's response up top. That said, one post per month is not an arduous requirement: I've been meeting it despite doing absolutely sod all else since January. In fact, were Yukkira not to make another post until April 10th, he'd be fine under our current laws even without this bill passing in terms of citizenship providing he remembers to login where appropriate at least once every 14 days.

Maybe there will be events in the future where people absolutely cannot access the needed facilities to do their job, and in that case, these people should resign. That sounds cruel, but why occupy a role if you cannot actually do the job at that time?
Edited by Lord Ravenclaw, Mar 12 2018, 04:11 PM.
RIP My Son, he died doing what he loved.
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Baker Park
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Darcania
Mar 12 2018, 02:57 PM
Baker Park
Mar 12 2018, 07:31 AM
Good looking out. I make no excuse for a word used incorrectly. I hope your pedantic fetish applies to your own posts.
Watch yourself. I will not have any thread in the Regional Assembly devolve into personal attacks. This thread, and in fact all threads here, is for debates on proposals, not snipes on your fellow citizens' characters.

Baker Park
Mar 12 2018, 07:31 AM
Specific words have actual meanings. I did no such thing....and this point that you somehow attribute to me to some spite or malice from a completely different subject is completely divorced from Your Declaration in the submitted bill (that You introduced) to repeal the section of the Code which now requires a review and exemption.
Sil Dorsett has not attributed malice to you. Neither has he introduced this bill. I am the one who proposed this bill.

Baker Park
Mar 12 2018, 07:31 AM
I object to the second clause on its merit; if it "may not" be needed, there is no legal purpose to be included in the draft. I move it be stricken.
No. One need only see my post and COE's post to see why it is still seen as necessary, even if it may end up having no actual effect.
And I respectfully would like to highlight this quote again--it certainly appears that something is being accused, which is just not true.

Quote:
 
You at best misinterpreted, or at worse twisted, what I was saying in your proposal thread


And he did introduce the bill which was previously passed which this particular initiative seeks to redress. Perhaps that confusion is my fault for the way it was worded.

Quote:
 
makes somewhat more sense than the tripe I've seen thus far from them.


And I certainly think this remark is uncalled for. I refer to my answer in the discussion of the Oath bill--more of "you better know your place around here, boy".
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Syrixia
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Owner of Eras' best navy. It is known.

Are you done hijacking each proposal of actual merit with repeated argumentation?
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Darcania
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>>> @requires(fluff=True)

I have removed the clause exempting Yukkira since Yukkira has resigned.
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Darcania
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>>> @requires(fluff=True)

I move for a vote.
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abc
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> $animal = 'dragon of duck';

The bill is now in formal debate, which will last for five days, after which a vote will be scheduled.
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abc
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> $animal = 'dragon of duck';

A vote has been scheduled to take place on April 12th.
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Siwale
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So...are we just going to pretend this bill never happened?
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Dinoium
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Siwale
May 11 2018, 01:18 PM
So...are we just going to pretend this bill never happened?
:duh:
Well I looked at the voting floor and we never voted on this, so I want to motion this for a new vote..
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4. If a number of citizens equal to or exceeding one third of the number of votes required to achieve quorum for any legislative vote, including the citizen that introduced the proposal to the Regional Assembly, motion that a vote should be held on a proposal before the Regional Assembly, then the Speaker must schedule a vote on that proposal to begin as soon as permitted by law.
Edited by Dinoium, May 11 2018, 05:27 PM.
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Darcania
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>>> @requires(fluff=True)

Dinoium
May 11 2018, 05:23 PM
Siwale
May 11 2018, 01:18 PM
So...are we just going to pretend this bill never happened?
:duh:
Well I looked at the voting floor and we never voted on this, so I want to motion this for a new vote..
Only the proposer (me) may motion for a vote, as this is a legislative amendment. As well, I had motioned above already.

I had been attempting to use this bill to teach my deputy abc the basics of handling the RA side of Speaker duties but he was never around often enough in TNP for me to teach him. Whoever the next Speaker is can take it from here.
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