Proposal: New Flag and Coat of Arms

Lennart

Lennart

TNPer
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Let the North Star Flag Fly!
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This is not a single man proposal, but a creative process in which quite a few TNPers have been influential. If any of you haven't checked the original thread with all the designs, ideas and my horrid French, this is the link>> http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/7439147 .

Our intention is to modernize TNP's regional symbols but being respectful to TNP TRADITION! keeping most elements that made the current official design unique, but making heraldic sense and adding the North Star, because you know, we love Northern things. We're Northerners after all.

And here's the proposal:


Bill:
A Bill to Improve the Flag of The North Pacific.

1. Chapter 8 "Cultural Declarations", Section 8.1: "Arms, Flag, and Seal" of the Legal Code shall be amended to read, and appear as follows:

2. The following Coat of Arms, based on a design by ThelDran and updated by the Ministry of Culture of The North Pacific, is adopted as the Coat of Arms of The North Pacific:
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3. The Arms are blazoned as: Barry wavy of four argent and azure, on a chief azure the North Star or and argent, the shield ensigned with a Mural Crown or.
4. Each institution in The North Pacific's government may establish for itself a seal which uses the arms of The North Pacific.
5. The Coat of Arms of The North Pacific may not be used except to represent The North Pacific or an official regional entity.
6. The following flag, as designed by ThelDRan and updated by the Ministry of Culture of The North Pacific is adopted as the official flag of The North Pacific:
2pqrok8.png
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2. This change will be enacted on the 10th anniversary of the adoption of the current forum: November 28, 2015.
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There seem to be a few notches on the scroll (I'll patch them up), other than that, solid flag.
 
I fully support this. I said this earlier when Sytarenne's proposal was the thing we were talking about, but TNP needs some aesthetic change in some form.

This coupled with the Essensia Light theme would make TNP amazingly amazing. Excuse me while I go suggest Essensia Light to the admins right now.
 
While I think it's lovely work, I just prefer our current. Sorry.
 
It's great to see the first reactions.

For the record, I'm going to explain why I prefer this new version over the official one.

In a way it's about evolving and look cooler, but it's also about seriousness. The current version of the Arms are pretty cool keeping in mind they were chosen for an emerging community in a new game, more than ten years ago. As a Community, TNP turned into a stable, massive, exemplary democratic virtual place, with a rather serious set of rules, culture and tradition that inspires respect.

But I can't feel that respect if the Main regional symbol does not look the part. And I am attached to it (that's why I modified it, rather than start from scratch) it just isn't what it seems to be. Pretends to be heraldic (something unique among GCRs) but it doesn't respect heraldic rules, it lacks a clear emblem like the North Star, it looks shabby and put together in a hurry (which, again, is perfectly fine for the time when it was made and chosen)... In heraldic terms it is a joke, a game, an I want TNP to look better than game, to be more than a joke.

This Community deserves an emblem and a flag that a real world country would use, that the College of Arms would approve of, something that looks serious and damn good and which is also serious and damn good.
 
Lord Ravenclaw:
Syrixia:
Lord Ravenclaw:
While I think it's lovely work, I just prefer our current. Sorry.
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Care to give a reason?
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I wasn't aware that I needed to?
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I've seen this before; a lot of people just say they like the old CoA "because tradition". I'd like someone to actually point out a reason based on the actual heraldry of the coat of arms, and truly prove why that coat of arms is better.
 
Syrixia:
Lord Ravenclaw:
Syrixia:
Lord Ravenclaw:
While I think it's lovely work, I just prefer our current. Sorry.
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Care to give a reason?
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I wasn't aware that I needed to?
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I've seen this before; a lot of people just say they like the old CoA "because tradition". I'd like someone to actually point out a reason based on the actual heraldry of the coat of arms, and truly prove why that coat of arms is better.
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And?

Did I miss your promotion to the thought police?
 
Nah Syrixia, in a matter like this, simple preference is a valid reason.

What is better? I said what I think I'm improving, but being a symbol preference and attachment play an important role. I totally understand Raven, and thank him for participating in this debate.
 
Sorry. I am not feeling the vibe. I prefer the current versions.

As one of the few who was around when the current flag was adopted, I also dislike being patronised. the current flag and seal were not "shabby and put together in a hurry". If you knew jack about the time, you would know that the process that led to the current flag and seal was every bit as careful as the one that has led to this version.

TNP is an old region. Near enough one of the originals. If you cannot feel respect for a symbol that marks the continuity and history of this region, that speaks of a deficiency on your part, not on the part of the flag.
 
Nobody is required to hold heraldry as almighty in their aesthetic judgerment. It's perfectly fine to like the current coat of arms best just because it's existed for years and years and it's fine the way it is.

You can't really expect someone to justify their favorite ice cream flavor by telling you about how the shape of its molecules are more pleasing to the neural receptors blah blah blah - it's personal preference. It's not subject to logic.

(My own personal preference is the new design by Lennart because I think it is just lovely, but nobody should feel attacked or belittled over a design.)
 
I like the designs, Lenny, by all means. They are very cool looking, and I would not hesitate to apply them to my nations at all.

However, if we're talking about our official regional flag and emblems, then I prefer the current ones as well. I'm not fond of changing regional emblems, because I believe that each of them has its value and history in TNP.

~ Tomb
 
SillyString:
Nobody is required to hold heraldry as almighty in their aesthetic judgerment. It's perfectly fine to like the current coat of arms best just because it's existed for years and years and it's fine the way it is.

You can't really expect someone to justify their favorite ice cream flavor by telling you about how the shape of its molecules are more pleasing to the neural receptors blah blah blah - it's personal preference. It's not subject to logic.
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This! If you want a simple exercise you can do to prove how silly asking for a "why" if one is not offered - think about your favourite colour and try to think of the reasons why you like it. Some people might be able to but most it'll be "just because".

I think the new designs are very pretty but I'm not convinced they're pretty enough to dispense with something we've had for such a long time - it'll take something pretty spectacular to do that for me and it's probably not just going to be minor tweaking. I really like the old design pretty much.
 
flemingovia:
Sorry. I am not feeling the vibe. I prefer the current versions.

As one of the few who was around when the current flag was adopted, I also dislike being patronised. the current flag and seal were not "shabby and put together in a hurry". If you knew jack about the time, you would know that the process that led to the current flag and seal was every bit as careful as the one that has led to this version.

TNP is an old region. Near enough one of the originals. If you cannot feel respect for a symbol that marks the continuity and history of this region, that speaks of a deficiency on your part, not on the part of the flag.
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No need to feel like that, I didn't want to patronise anyone and even less oldtimers who were around when the current CoA was adopted. I didn't say it "was", I said it "looks". I wasn't there during the process, and it could take very long... And It still looks like a bad copy of what an heraldic Coat of arms should be.

As I said, I'm also attached to the current symbols, even if I think they are not technically good enough for TNP.

So I am also happy that you like the current one, it's perfectly fine to defend it, as a tradition.
 
To the rest of the comments, I thank you for compliments and comments and I understand that taste and preference are obviously the main thing for most people.

I will understand people who like it but would be voting against. I'd also understand people who like it even more than the current official version, but still would vote against anyway because tradition! And as I said, I like the old one as well, it's win-win for me.

I only want to add, that this is an obvious modification and update of the old Symbols, rather than a brand new proposal out of nothingness. It keeps many original elements, pretty much all of them, just in a different order (if we talk about taste) and a correct order (if we're talking heraldry)
 
The Hinterland:
I really like the CoA you designed, Lenny. The North star is a nice addition and the shade of blue you chose is great.
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A little secret: I chose the shade of blue and red from the British flag lol
 
I think the new designs look great, but I also think the current design is no just as good if not better. I see no pressing reason to replace it. In fact I personally prefer it slightly because of the blue and gold rim around the shield and the lack of blue and red in the castle crown, though I think the addition of a star in the red field is an improvement.

A technical aside, was this new design done as an SVG or a bitmap? If the former, is the SVG available?
 
Gulliver:
I think the new designs look great, but I also think the current design is no just as good if not better. I see no pressing reason to replace it. In fact I personally prefer it slightly because of the blue and gold rim around the shield and the lack of blue and red in the castle crown, though I think the addition of a star in the red field is an improvement.

A technical aside, was this new design done as an SVG or a bitmap? If the former, is the SVG available?
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Thanks, Gulliver

It was done as a bitmap. I used vector software to make layers clearer as I resized them, though, but it lets me export them as a bitmap again. I can get a SVG version in 30 seconds if you need one.

I might as well vectorize the current official version.
 
Personally, I don't like the subtraction of the laurels, and this one just seems very...red. I liked the large dark blue field in the old design. I wouldn't be opposed to updating the arms and adding in the north star, but I don't prefer this specific design to the current arms.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
Personally, I don't like the subtraction of the laurels, and this one just seems very...red. I liked the large dark blue field in the old design. I wouldn't be opposed to updating the arms and adding in the north star, but I don't prefer this specific design to the current arms.
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:agree:

I like bits of it better than the old one.. but I don't think the new design is quite right yet.
 
flemingovia:
Sorry. I am not feeling the vibe. I prefer the current versions.

As one of the few who was around when the current flag was adopted, I also dislike being patronised. the current flag and seal were not "shabby and put together in a hurry". If you knew jack about the time, you would know that the process that led to the current flag and seal was every bit as careful as the one that has led to this version.

TNP is an old region. Near enough one of the originals. If you cannot feel respect for a symbol that marks the continuity and history of this region, that speaks of a deficiency on your part, not on the part of the flag.
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That much red is too much red, and I dislike the color as a prominent color in a region whose tradition and heritage is blue.

I agree with Flem. I was here when the coast of arms and flag were adopted, and it was a carefully thought out process. I won't be support these changes in the currently offered form.
 
Gulliver:
I think the new designs look great, but I also think the current design is no just as good if not better. I see no pressing reason to replace it. In fact I personally prefer it slightly because of the blue and gold rim around the shield and the lack of blue and red in the castle crown, though I think the addition of a star in the red field is an improvement.
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My thoughts exactly. The gold around the shield and on the castle and on the froggy toes are what make me prefer the current design. It all just seems to "pop" more than the proposed new version.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Syrixia:
Just made this. What do you guys think?

northstarcurrent.png
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Still too much red. A star on dark blue would be better.
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It looks like he just took the current coat of arms and added a white and yellow star onto the current red field, so it actually has less red than our current one.
 
Edit: I withdraw my attempt at sarcasm.

I don't really have anything else important to say. Probably adding the star to the official Arms is a more realistic proposal... and somehow I don't feel it's right to carry on with so many old-timers against my main design.

I like my proposal first, the current arms with the star second and current arms as they are third.
 
If the star was 'remade' to fit the style of the current flag then it would certainly be appropriate but right now it seems much too abstract.
 
Cronaal:
If the star was 'remade' to fit the style of the current flag then it would certainly be appropriate but right now it seems much too abstract.
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I'd ask Lennart to do that. He made the star.

Lenny?
 
what's wrong with the star?

do you want me to paste a regular yellow or white star on it instead?

Cronaal, care to explain?
 
Lennart:
what's wrong with the star?

do you want me to paste a regular yellow or white star on it instead?

Cronaal, care to explain?
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I think he means something that looks similar to the rest of the coat of arms. Maybe you could give the North Star a black outline?
 
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