Bill of Rights Day

Historically speaking, December 2nd is when the Bill of Rights was transferred from the previous constitution into being its own document.

The adoption of the Bill of Rights' content is rightfully the same as Constitution Day:
Codified Law of The North Pacific:
10. The seventh of July shall be Constitution Day, and shall commemorate the ratification of the Constitution of the North Pacific.
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Perhaps constitution day's description should be amended to say it commemorates the July 7 2005 ratification of the big old constitution including the bill of rights.

This may be a relevant topic to read.
 
I like the idea of adding the BoR to the days we celebrate. Like Elu said, given that the adoption of the BoR coincided with the adoption of the constitution, amended the Constitution Day description and/or name would make sense.
 
I think Democracy Day would be better than Freedom Day. Although I don't see a pressing need to change the name of the holiday, since the first BOR was part of the constitution.
 
The original Bill of Rights was adopted as part of the Contitution that predated the Constitutional Convention. The records of that adoption are at Old Blue, but the version that has 11 clauses is what came out of the Constitutional Convention.
Let me get on my notebook and check; it's hard to navigate Old Blue with the browser that comes with my Kindle.
 
The original version of the Bill of Rights, then called a "Declaration of Rights" to the first constitutional revision adopted in 2005 (as sections 3 and 4 of Article I of that revision) was adopted on 5 April 2005, following a referendum.
http://s2.invisionfree.invalid/The_North_Pacific/index.php?showtopic=4125

If a separate legal holiday as to the Bill of Rights is sought, the 5th of April would be the correct date, and the next Fifth of April will be the Tenth anniversary of its adoption.

The Seventh of July represents the date of the ratification of the Constitution and Legal Code, including a new version of the Declaration of Rights as it was framed at the Constitutional Convention of 2005.
 
JhonsJoe:
Clause 10 in Legal Code 'Section 7.2: Holidays' shall amended and thus read:
10. The seventh of July shall be Democracy Day, and shall commemorate the ratification of the Constitution and Bill of Rights of the North Pacific.
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This is an example of a proposal where more complete research of our history as a region would have led you to the April 5th date.

I would strongly recommend that the April 5th date be used if we're speaking of a separate legal holiday in TNP for the Bill of Rights.

I do not believe this bill was ready for formal debate, because of the lack of complete vetting beforehand. If this proposal is not fixed to be historically accurate, then if it goes to a vote in this form, I will be opposed.
 
I agree. I urge Jho to withdraw this from formal debate and give us more than five days to talk about whether we should have a separate holiday to commemorate the Bill of Rights. I will vote nay if I feel like more debate is needed when it goes to vote, whether I agree with the bill or not.

The reason, of course, is that even if I agree with the bill as it stands, the rest of the region deserves a chance to weigh in, and someone might say something that could change my mind about it.
 
COE:
withdraw this from formal debate and give us more than five days to talk about whether we should have a separate holiday to commemorate the Bill of Rights. I will vote nay if I feel like more debate is needed when it goes to vote, whether I agree with the bill or not.
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Seriously? More than 5 days to debate the merits of a holiday? :eyebrow:
 
falapatorius:
COE:
withdraw this from formal debate and give us more than five days to talk about whether we should have a separate holiday to commemorate the Bill of Rights. I will vote nay if I feel like more debate is needed when it goes to vote, whether I agree with the bill or not.
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Seriously? More than 5 days to debate the merits of a holiday? :eyebrow:
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Sillier things have went for longer.
 
falapatorius:
COE:
withdraw this from formal debate and give us more than five days to talk about whether we should have a separate holiday to commemorate the Bill of Rights. I will vote nay if I feel like more debate is needed when it goes to vote, whether I agree with the bill or not.
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Seriously? More than 5 days to debate the merits of a holiday? :eyebrow:
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It's not so much the specific time frame as the meaning of formal debate. Even if we discuss for five days and work out a wonderful draft that we all like, if the author of the bill simply gets lazy and doesn't log on, it's the old version that goes to vote. Whereas if we can work out that version first, we don't risk having to hold a vote on a bad draft that isn't going to pass.

The point of formal debate is not "Oh good, let's debate this". It was introduced in order to stop people from moving bills to vote just to spark discussion and then withdrawing the motion once people made some comments. That formal debate ends in a vote provides the same incentive to weigh in when there's been silence, and allows the text to be tweaked without the risk that the Speaker gets there first and the text is locked in.

To move to formal debate on the same day as something is proposed, when there has been active participation by several RA members and some discussion on further suggestions is just inane. Is it allowed? Sure. But it's a dumb choice.
 
Woah Woah Woah, before I get round two of a tsunami of criticism, think for a minute. It makes sense. The original BoR was part of the constitution, but now is separate, I think we've come up with a legitimate compromise, "democracy day" will celebrate both.
 
You know what. Remove this from formal debate. You are all right. I will look over this and redraft it. But it will certainly not take 5 DAYS.
 
JhonsJoe:
Woah Woah Woah, before I get round two of a tsunami of criticism, think for a minute. It makes sense. The original BoR was part of the constitution, but now is separate, I think we've come up with a legitimate compromise, "democracy day" will celebrate both.
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As one who was around at the time as Speaker, the separation and re-titling of the Declaration of Rights as the Bill of Rights was not historically or legally significant. It had to do more with insulating those provisions from a Constitutional revision that was voted on and passed at the same time. As I mentioned before the key date really is April 7th 2005, and it would make complete sense to use the tenth anniversary of that date to enshrine that event into the cultural and historical legacy of TNP.
If you're uncomfortable with doing that on your own, I'd be willing to co-sponsor it with you or offer it myself, if you prefer.
 
JhonsJoe:
You know what. Remove this from formal debate. You are all right. I will look over this and redraft it. But it will certainly not take 5 DAYS.
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Formal debate is suspended.
 
The reason I said five days is because that's how long formal debate is. Allowing any amount of time before moving into formal debate is allowing more than five days. The five days of formal debate is not a sufficient amount of time to hear from everyone.
 
I would suggest editing the clause to say:

14. The fifth of April shall be Bill of Rights Day, and shall commemorate the adoption of The Bill of Rights for all Nations of The North Pacific.
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I corrected "adaptation", and used the proper name of the BoR.
 
We already have eight regional holidays, some of which pass with barely a mention unless the Speaker decides to suspend assembly business on that day.

recently on Creation Day we had assembly members asking what the heck the holiday WAS?

Personally, I am not sure i see the need for another holiday. IF the BOR needs celebrating, then adding it on to another holiday would suffice.

I note that neither the ever-eager-but-evasive-when-questioned JhonJoe or anyone else has provided any rationale as to why this holiday is needed?

At the moment, i will be voting against.
 
I would object to any language which asserts that the vote ending April 7th constituted "adoption" or "ratification" on behalf of The North Pacific, as the vote was illegal under the Blackshear Constitution due to the absence of Cabinet ratification. It is my position that legally, the Constitutional Convention of 2005 created a constitution ex nihilo, by popular ratification, just as the Blackshear Constitution had originally.

How about this:
14. The fifth of April shall be Bill of Rights Day, and shall commemorate the introduction of The Bill of Rights for all Nations of The North Pacific.
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Eluvatar:
I would object to any language which asserts that the vote ending April 7th constituted "adoption" or "ratification" on behalf of The North Pacific, as the vote was illegal under the Blackshear Constitution due to the absence of Cabinet ratification. It is my position that legally, the Constitutional Convention of 2005 created a constitution ex nihilo, by popular ratification, just as the Blackshear Constitution had originally.

How about this:
14. The fifth of April shall be Bill of Rights Day, and shall commemorate the introduction of The Bill of Rights for all Nations of The North Pacific.
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By that logic, the RL Constitution of the United States that came out of the Philadelphia Convention in 1787 was illegal because it wasn't adopted unanimously in the Continental Congress under the Articles of Confederation

There was no legal Delegate and no legal Cabinet (as that was in the middle of the Pixiedance dictatorship that likewise ignored the Blackshear Constitution), so in those areas of TNP that were outside the control of the Pixiedance regime, the April 2005 constitution became the governing document.

But the point should be is that was the origin source of the Bill of Rights in TNP, and that should be the basis of choosing the date.
 
I think Elu's on board with celebrating that date, but not codifying it as the date that the Bill of Rights was adopted. Given the somewhat murky legal situation, I would prefer a less precise verb myself, or, as I suggest above, omitting the verb entirely.
 
Sorry? Why do we need this holiday again?

PS JJ, the above is a question. It is usual to answer them. I know from your campaign thread you have difficulties with the concept, hence the explanation.
 
How about compromising the date to be April 6th to commemorate the very existence of the Bill of Rights?

And Flem, I'm sure you'd be happier if there was no Bill of Rights in the first place, because it clearly interferes with what you want to do these days. But for many of us, it protects us from religious and other forms of dictatorships.
 
Woah, now. I don't think begin anti-BOR-Day is the same as being anti-BOR. I think Flem has observed correctly that we don't tend to celebrate our holidays very well, and is suggesting that adding holidays to the calendar is just symbolic fluff in our legal system. He's been opposed to adding holidays in the past, so I highly doubt his opposition to this one has anything to do with the BOR specifically.

I would tend to agree, but I don't see any harm in creating more opportunities to celebrate. I think maybe we should work on exactly *how* to celebrate them, but that's a separate matter from creating those opportunities.
 
Woah, now. I don't think begin anti-BOR-Day is the same as being anti-BOR
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This.

I have scrupulously abided by the BOR for as long as I have been in TNP, and fought against those who have tried to abolish it. Legislation I have introduced has emphasised and reiterated the protections granted by the BOR. I just don't want another holiday on the books.
 
flemingovia:
Woah, now. I don't think begin anti-BOR-Day is the same as being anti-BOR
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This.

I have scrupulously abided by the BOR for as long as I have been in TNP, and fought against those who have tried to abolish it. Legislation I have introduced has emphasised and reiterated the protections granted by the BOR. I just don't want another holiday on the books.
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Then why not support the repeal of this:

Section 7.3, Clause 17:

17. Holidays of the Flemingovian religion shall be observed regionally, and all nations shall have the right to take a day off work, unpaid, on those holidays. Government officials are excluded from the effects of this clause.
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Otherwise, you are being inconsistent, and not consistent at all.
 
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